Outlaw saws

Cereal_Killer said:
Post the serial numbers. The actual stamped in metal serial number plate, not the sticker. Being that they're real and all we can run the numbers in stihl dealer system... Prove us all wrong.
Click to expand...
Unless you run the numbers in the host country or have a contact inside the factory you may not get a read on the serial numbers...
 
brydan said:
This was close to 20 years ago now in CA but the company I worked for had some 3120's and one day when I brought one into the shop for repairs the dealer told me they rarely see a 3120's anymore because of all the overheating problems. After I told him ours ran like a top and never had a problem he explained that ours came from out of state with the original carb on them, not the CA compliant carb so that's why they worked. He said CA dealers at the time had all but stopped selling them because of all the problems. That was the story as I recall it anyway :D

As far as overseas stuff in general, some times when companies make stuff for foreign markets it's with cost cutting measures in mind. What the North American and European markets are willing to pay for new tech is very different than what the markets will bear in other parts of the world. I don't know anything about the foreign chainsaw market specifically but it's possible that cost issues have more to do with saw companies still offering older models for sale rather than it simply being an issue of different emissions requirements. I would be interested to hear what Robin's thoughts are on it.
Click to expand...
Emissions are a big deal - apparently in some countries ms200t are still sold new when emissions arent regulated
 
decreppo said:
I’m kind of interested in this topic. What type of emissions hardware are on our US saws? What’s the performances boost from Not having those restrictions in the other saws?anyone try two similar saws, one emission free, one US model and notice a difference?
Click to expand...
Generally low emissions is leaner running saw. Rich is great for cooling, power, holding load etc but poorer emissions.

I just toasted a 201TC because it got bogged in the cut because kerf squeeze and stripped the coating/liner off the cylinder bore because the saw already runs hot and hasnt the cooling capacity to be loaded up. I wasnt happy but nature of the beast.
 
Fair enough. Yes, emissions are a big deal in this country and it's not in others. My initial point was simply bringing up another side of the equation when it comes to foreign markets, cost. We see things in terms of emissions because that's what effects what we have available to us. In most of the rest of the world, cost/parts availability/durability are the driving factor. Yes they also have less emissions requirements so they can use whatever they want but reduced emissions in and of itself may not be the primary motivation for using older technology. It may be more of a byproduct of lower cost equipment. Regardless, I'm not losing sleep over the issue either way. The chainsaw market in Thailand isn't high on my list of concerns :D

This discussion reminds me of a trip to Costa Rica in 1992. My dad and I were with a local walking down the street of a village and of course he sees a mechanic at work and stops to poke his head in and see what the man is doing. It was like going back in time to a shop from the 60's. He didn't have a lot but what he had was the old simple and sturdy equipment. He explained, this is what we can get parts for and we know how to fix them. The cost to import brand new machines from the US was simply out of the question. There was still old equipment being brought into the country from the US at a fraction of the cost so that's what they used.
 
Robin Wood said:
Cost saving by still offering in 3rd world countries is true, by keeping the same model alive and not changing the production line the same they make more money than changing to a new model.
Click to expand...
Definitely. I don't know what the total cost is for Stihl to bring a new high end saw to the market but I suspect the costs are very high. Probably in the millions. To produce a 20 or 30 year old saw is a fraction of that. The development costs are long paid for, it's just a matter of maintaining the tooling at that point.
 
This is a serious question: are chainsaws really that big of a contributor to emissions, such that there would be no other -BIG- contributor which could be regulated and take out 50% (or some other large proportion) of emissions?

In other words, in the total pie chart, as it were, of what constitutes 'emissions', are the slices all 1/10% wide, and chainsaws happens to be one of the 1000 'slices' which compose the pie, or are chainsaws (or some other category chainsaws would be included in, such as 'outdoor power equipment', etc.) seriously that large of a contributor to total emissions? Is there not a single 'slice' in this pie which is much larger than all of the others? I.e., long-haul diesel transport, etc.
 
brydan said:
Fair enough. Yes, emissions are a big deal in this country and it's not in others. My initial point was simply bringing up another side of the equation when it comes to foreign markets, cost. We see things in terms of emissions because that's what effects what we have available to us. In most of the rest of the world, cost/parts availability/durability are the driving factor. Yes they also have less emissions requirements so they can use whatever they want but reduced emissions in and of itself may not be the primary motivation for using older technology. It may be more of a byproduct of lower cost equipment. Regardless, I'm not losing sleep over the issue either way. The chainsaw market in Thailand isn't high on my list of concerns :D

This discussion reminds me of a trip to Costa Rica in 1992. My dad and I were with a local walking down the street of a village and of course he sees a mechanic at work and stops to poke his head in and see what the man is doing. It was like going back in time to a shop from the 60's. He didn't have a lot but what he had was the old simple and sturdy equipment. He explained, this is what we can get parts for and we know how to fix them. The cost to import brand new machines from the US was simply out of the question. There was still old equipment being brought into the country from the US at a fraction of the cost so that's what they used.
Click to expand...
I once watched a travel show following travellers driving across India or Bangladesh, and the piston cracked. The camera followed the local repair shop melting down the piston and recasting it onsite. Within hours the car was going again. Awesome!
 
Treezybreez said:
The irony, is that we're supposed to believe that the new technology is making our air cleaner, all while our dumps are filling up with cheap crap.
Click to expand...
I always thought, growing up, that inflation would manifest itself as higher prices, which might be true, in part. But, I think the lion's share of is hitting, and has hit, as same prices, but lower quality goods.

However, there's a bit of a 'chicken vs. egg' situation here, as, at least in the area where I live - and I think this holds true for the majority of developed areas in the US - the average is a new car every 3 years, new house every 5, and no one works on nor maintains any of their own possessions. If that's the case, what motivates manufacturers to actually produce goods which outlast the span of time the vast majority of consumers will actually own the product? So, it almost seems like, at least in one sense, "we" are getting what we deserve/asked-for.

Add to that the complicating factor that there's a "just do something!" type of mentality, wherein an individual's social capital (or position in the hierarchy) can be greatly increased by being part of efforts that will, at least nominally, address the environmental concerns we are talking about, regardless of whether or not the efforts actually help the issues (and, as you're alluding to, in the long term, such efforts may actually worsen the issue!).

Whew! xD xD xD
 
LordFarkwad said:
I always thought, growing up, that inflation would manifest itself as higher prices, which might be true, in part. But, I think the lion's share of is hitting, and has hit, as same prices, but lower quality goods.

However, there's a bit of a 'chicken vs. egg' situation here, as, at least in the area where I live - and I think this holds true for the majority of developed areas in the US - the average is a new car every 3 years, new house every 5, and no one works on nor maintains any of their own possessions. If that's the case, what motivates manufacturers to actually produce goods which outlast the span of time the vast majority of consumers will actually own the product? So, it almost seems like, at least in one sense, "we" are getting what we deserve/asked-for.

Add to that the complicating factor that there's a "just do something!" type of mentality, wherein an individual's social capital (or position in the hierarchy) can be greatly increased by being part of efforts that will, at least nominally, address the environmental concerns we are talking about, regardless of whether or not the efforts actually help the issues (and, as you're alluding to, in the long term, such efforts may actually worsen the issue!).

Whew! xD xD xD
Click to expand...
It started with Japan, with their specification for mandatory vehicle replacement every 3-5 years. They then exported the second hand cars as whole or parts to other countries which worked very well, even with Korean car manufacturing pressure. But once the Chinese manufacturing dominated parts or whole production of goods, disposable cars really fulfill their definition.

The quality control is what kills China. The product goes out whether to spec or not There is some Chinese manufacturers who maintain quality control, including one major outdoor power equipment manufacturer there that maintains quality control, but they have staunch CEO with vision to keep their company going. Foreign companies manufacturing supposedly quality goods in China soon give up unless they have their own quality control teams at the factory regulating production but it is hard work, as must manage supply trains too.

Europe has had issues with parts distribution for years which caused their customers to change cars more regularly.

Almost every seamstress I know rues the loss of Swiss and Swedish machines due to the cheap goods pressure.

Thanks to Lima Declaration for the cheap goods R rd évolutions in moving industrial production to the third world (read third world nation of China - it’s sponsored target), and the politicians that sold out the Western World.

Add to that the marketing hype of new everything to keep up appearances and you have a country built on landfill.

Most of the issue is that the pricing of cheap goods was fake in that it didn’t include the recycling or disposal costs. If a bond was kept upon import for its reprocessing, then we wouldn’t be in the situation if having six cheap goods replacing the lifetime of one quality good etc, and no funding for collection.

Even China is suffering. China has few sites for landfill left. Furnace cities like Wuhan have dioxin issues poisoning their children (hence the riots there in 2019). And China has been recorded as sending their garbage directly to the Great Pacific Ocean garbage patch and dumping at sea. So now we will be left tasked in trying to clean the oceans - if it isn’t too late already to save. The rivers waste map is also an eye opener - where the waste from six rivers carries 90% of waste that ends up in the ocean.

This argument on is limited because of things like emissions laws, and high oil prices, create a swathe of vehicles and power equipment that is too expensive to run or fix and thus need early retirement. But the system could be managed better, but society and politicians can’t have tunnel-vision and self interest and achieve these goals.

Be nice to see UN or such agencies coordinate such actions but sadly these agencies are shills for globalists and the buck is left with us to do something about it, if we survive long enough.

Rant over ...
 
Tighter emissions laws = more lean running engine. Longevity sacrificed for better fuel economy and low emissions, they should run hotter. Those mtronic/autotune design dont let you tune, i think they could be set slightly on the lean side. That's why you still hear them seizing, despite it being able to adjust itself
 
LordFarkwad said:
I always thought, growing up, that inflation would manifest itself as higher prices, which might be true, in part. But, I think the lion's share of is hitting, and has hit, as same prices, but lower quality goods.

However, there's a bit of a 'chicken vs. egg' situation here, as, at least in the area where I live - and I think this holds true for the majority of developed areas in the US - the average is a new car every 3 years, new house every 5, and no one works on nor maintains any of their own possessions. If that's the case, what motivates manufacturers to actually produce goods which outlast the span of time the vast majority of consumers will actually own the product? So, it almost seems like, at least in one sense, "we" are getting what we deserve/asked-for.

Add to that the complicating factor that there's a "just do something!" type of mentality, wherein an individual's social capital (or position in the hierarchy) can be greatly increased by being part of efforts that will, at least nominally, address the environmental concerns we are talking about, regardless of whether or not the efforts actually help the issues (and, as you're alluding to, in the long term, such efforts may actually worsen the issue!).

Whew! xD xD xD
Click to expand...
New car every 3 years... I wish! I haven't had a vehicle with less than 250K miles on it when I gave it up in 40 years. One had 750K. A 3 year old vehicle is just getting used to my ass in the driver's seat!
 
oldoakman said:
New car every 3 years... I wish! I haven't had a vehicle with less than 250K miles on it when I gave it up in 40 years. One had 750K. A 3 year old vehicle is just getting used to my ass in the driver's seat!
Click to expand...

Right on, brother. I drive them until the wheels fall off too, and maintain the crap out of em the whole time.

People around here start getting "antsy", for lack of a better word, when their vehicles get 50k/3yrs on em, so that's part of the reason I say that the whole issue is "we" are simply getting what "we" deserve ("we" = that average wanker that buys new vehicles every 3yrs).*

Edit: *for sake of simplicity, I'll leave out the whole "cash for clunkers" thing, which literally sent the entire secondary consumer car market into the crusher/shredder
 
Chaplain242 said:
Generally low emissions is leaner running saw. Rich is great for cooling, power, holding load etc but poorer emissions.

I just toasted a 201TC because it got bogged in the cut because kerf squeeze and stripped the coating/liner off the cylinder bore because the saw already runs hot and hasnt the cooling capacity to be loaded up. I wasnt happy but nature of the beast.
Click to expand...
Hence why all my climbing saws are modded. Timing advance and gutted muffler.

Sent from my SM-N970F using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom