? on what would be a good stopper knot

[theXman]

Thanks for the replies guys. Sorry it took so long to check back in. Dang, the buzz isn't as busy as it used to be. Great resource, easy to search, it should be used a lot, like it used to be. Back say... 8 years ago, this thread would have been 15 pages long by now with lots of great ideas.

 

[theXman]

Hey JDD, glad to see you're alive and well.

Levi ! cool

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Hi @theXman

 

[theXman]

Xman, a legend of tree buzz and trees in general

Rigging trees with hot air balloons! Or was that just a dream I had?

That was my dream. I have not done that job yet, but it's still possible.

I have accomplished other dreams though, like going to Australia and working with ACE Tree.

About a month ago, I "got rid" of all my workers. 23 years and I've had enough. The blue collar worker sure has gone negative.
I'm not giving up my business. We have GREAT customers.

Doing small jobs on my own and pulling in the right contractors to work with me on the right jobs.

I'm also going to go extremely mechanical to do more jobs on my own.

Finally, it looks like I will have some time in life and maybe have some money. With that little bit of time... I've come back to the buzz. It's not just time though...… I had to get away from reading BS on the rings and I was staying away from airing out dirty laundry with all the wrongs that were given to me..... because a friend convinced me to take the high road and be more Christian like.

 

[TimBr]

Hey, @theXman; It is good to read you on the forum. If I may ask, when you say "I had to get away from reading BS on the rings and I was staying away from airing out dirty laundry with all the wrongs that were given to me", I'm just wondering if this is still an ongoing thing? You don't have to answer if it causes problems for you.

I guess my bottom line question is whether or not you still sell X-Rigging ring products directly or not, if in fact you ever did? Maybe doing something like August Hunicke is doing with his saddle, by selling directly to customers, would allow you to retain more of the value of your product line.

Thanks for your time.

Tim

P.S. I just recently bought my first X-Rigging ring sling. I still need to give it its first tryout, though.

 

[theXman]

No problem and thanks. I started out trying to sell to the public and it was time consuming, tedious and not profitable. Then I was supplying TreeStuff, Sherrill, WesSpur, American Arborist and a few other smaller shops. That was better. TreeStuff and Sherrill made decent sized purchases after a while.
Is the BS still an ongoing thing? No, not really. The lies, fighting, false stories, broken promises and backstabbing has pretty much stopped a few years ago, After Sherrill bought TreeStuff. There was some lies and manipulation of some testing when block companies realized they were hurting in sales I think. The Biggest tree services still "outlaw" the rings and state different reasons all the time; but I know the real reasons, people in charge of what can be used are linked to certain products and have friends linked with products. So, truth gets distorted, truth gets hidden, when it comes to money; like always in the world. I should get some free time in life now that I made some changes I think to my tree service and one of the many things I need to do is help contribute to a technical paper of all the testing we did with rings and safebloc and pulley blocks with a major rope mfg. Once that is completed, maybe the Big companies will finally allow them to be used.
I had turned the mfg and sales of the Rings over to Sherrill Tree and the Safebloc and I get paid royalty payments. It's not big, but it has it's benefits for sure and it was a good choice, especially with new copy rings coming out of the woodwork every other month. Sherrill has been great through the whole process and communicated extremely well with me on possible changes and let me have a ton of input AND test and choose things like which company to allow to hardcoat, etc. When I gave them new dimensions to make the rings, they did it. When I tested the hardcoats on various samples and picked one harder than the originals, they did it. I asked for matte finish for more friction, they did it.

BTW, the new current rings as of about a month or two ago, are now mfg by Harken and hardcoated by Harken and are my new fat and tall sizes. Also, Sherrill decided (on their own) it was best to drop the Notch logo off of them and return them to the original name of X-Rigging Ring (that was big of them and cool). The new ones are a polished look. The matte finish wasn't shiney and people like shiney, plus the matte finish picked up smudges/smears of other things they rubbed against and made people think they were scratches. Also, with dirty ropes, the matte finish might have gripped the dirt more and wore through faster; I'm not sure.


There is still some ignorant wording in the descriptions of other competing rings out there. Plus type in X-RIGGING RING in the search on a big arborist supply company website and look how many items come up before you ever get to the X-rings. Plus the wording of the Beast ring size is wrong, the way it's worded makes people think it's smaller than it is, it says, (38mm ring size, 28mm sling groove), The hole is 38mm, not the size of the ring. The ring is like 98mm ! I wrote them this the other week, but see no change yet. I've not looked at that website for a few years until just recently.

 

[TimBr]

Thanks a lot for the detailed answer, @theXman. I greatly appreciate it, and wish you luck in all of your ventures.

Tim

 

[theXman]

Thanks man. I should be bringing my youtube channel back to life with action packed vids, product reviews and DIY modifications to things; this winter. Plus, finally get onto these many products I've had on paper for many years now. Hope to stay on the buzz too and convince some "old-timers" with a lifetime of experience to come back too.

 

[Mowerr]

Thanks man. I should be bringing my youtube channel back to life with action packed vids, product reviews and DIY modifications to things; this winter. Plus, finally get onto these many products I've had on paper for many years now. Hope to stay on the buzz too and convince some "old-timers" with a lifetime of experience to come back too.

I gotta say thank you for the invention of the x rigging ring! I didn't know people weren't using them for whatever reasons they don't. I have personally seen what they can handle and I have always been impressed. I love them. Thank you.

 

[Daniel]

I'm going to buy a radio remote choker bell or two and use them with my crane. This way I can set my picks down and release them without having to leave the tree and go untie them. I went employee-less recently and not going to hire again, 23 yrs was enough, this is the cheapest step in becoming faster while working solo. I've been using Amsteel 2 Plus Coated for many years now as my crane slings and I tie with them. I was thinking of bying one choker bell at first and the short range remote control transmitter. Then buy a new 5/8" amsteel 2 and also a thin 1/2" spider leg for balancing and I drew up a way to likely be able to attach both of those slings in one choker bell. If I like the choker bell, I might buy a second, but they are pricey, so I'll try one first. One bell is around $4100. Remote is $1100. My current crane amsteel 2 slings are overkill and too large, they are 1 inch.

WOW,

what happened???
That's a huge shift... this is a team effort endeavor

 

[Brocky]

I saw this one recently

 

[southsoundtree]

X, you've probably figured, but worth discussing, you're talking about a jamming situation. All other strength data has been from normal 'pulling' use.

Pushing against a bowline will be different that pulling from the bowline's loop, as is normal.

I wonder how uniform the pressure on the remote-control choker will be on a rope.

A 'knob' is made specifically to fit the 'bell' of the choker, not repurposed.

I don't think that stopper knots are typically high-load scenarios.

 

[Gorman]

Thanks man. I should be bringing my youtube channel back to life with action packed vids, product reviews and DIY modifications to things; this winter. Plus, finally get onto these many products I've had on paper for many years now. Hope to stay on the buzz too and convince some "old-timers" with a lifetime of experience to come back too.

You better bring that channel back.

 

[knudeNoggin]

After years of reading articles on breaking ropes and knots the 15% is a rule of thumb. Like too many things...

It depends...

I'm shocked! The rule of thumb is >>> 50 / fiftY % <<< not (sounds alike) 15%. (You're on the spot for finding much of any test data to come to your aid (angling knots excluded (and their testing often ignores real tensile of the material, usually way above nominal strength)).

And for HMPE the rule goes out the window, where many knots are failing at 15 (one five) % !!! That said, I've never seen testing for stopper knots which is what is germane to the OP. Ashley's stopper is indeed a fine broad/even-faced stopper, but it's vulnerable to pulling through, as it's a noose nipping its tail --the overhand component (which makes for the nice triangular face) needs to be firmly set, hauled damn tight, and any demanding application; one can also slip the knot --i.e., tuck out not a single but a folded stand, so to put two diameters of material that will resist the hard pull of the main line.


There has been some considerable exploration by some in the yachting world at making "soft shackles" of pure HMPE rope where an eye holds a stopper knot. Google for "Evans Starzinger" [sic] and ... , well, here's one URLink into this research (into a lonnnnng thread!) : http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/154025-ropeknotsplice-load-testing/
But this doesn't answer your need for re-tying/-sizing.


*kN*

 

[evo]

Whats that knot used on a soft shackle?

 

[evo]

use that one, ha!

 

[Brocky]

The Diamond knot is used a lot. There is also the Chinese Buttonhole knot that buries the tails of the knot to increase the bend radius, increasing the break strength. Neither are easily untied, as previously stated.

 

[theXman]

X, you've probably figured, but worth discussing, you're talking about a jamming situation. All other strength data has been from normal 'pulling' use.

Pushing against a bowline will be different that pulling from the bowline's loop, as is normal.

I wonder how uniform the pressure on the remote-control choker will be on a rope.

A 'knob' is made specifically to fit the 'bell' of the choker, not repurposed.

I don't think that stopper knots are typically high-load scenarios.

This choker will work with just as big knot. It doesn't have a space that accepts a "knob". It just needs something bigger than the hole. Distributor agrees a knot will work. Anyway, YES, I don't know stopper knot strength. I guess I should get a break test machine to test some stopper knots.

 

[theXman]

I'm shocked! The rule of thumb is >>> 50 / fiftY % <<< not (sounds alike) 15%. (You're on the spot for finding much of any test data to come to your aid (angling knots excluded (and their testing often ignores real tensile of the material, usually way above nominal strength)).

And for HMPE the rule goes out the window, where many knots are failing at 15 (one five) % !!! That said, I've never seen testing for stopper knots which is what is germane to the OP. Ashley's stopper is indeed a fine broad/even-faced stopper, but it's vulnerable to pulling through, as it's a noose nipping its tail --the overhand component (which makes for the nice triangular face) needs to be firmly set, hauled damn tight, and any demanding application; one can also slip the knot --i.e., tuck out not a single but a folded stand, so to put two diameters of material that will resist the hard pull of the main line.


There has been some considerable exploration by some in the yachting world at making "soft shackles" of pure HMPE rope where an eye holds a stopper knot. Google for "Evans Starzinger" [sic] and ... , well, here's one URLink into this research (into a lonnnnng thread!) : http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/154025-ropeknotsplice-load-testing/
But this doesn't answer your need for re-tying/-sizing.


*kN*

excellent

 

[theXman]

Whats that knot used on a soft shackle?

I'm going to ask two friends that have a lot of experience splicing and tying soft shackles. I don't think that knot ball is easy to untie.