Notch Radius Ring

Burrapeg

Well-Known Member
Yes, I noticed that problem the first time I tried this setup two years ago. The solution was to leave the swivel in play, along with a shackle thru the hole, rather than ignoring the swivel altogether. The biner is thru both and the shackle is carrying most of the load. The swivel is not under any real pressure but does keep the whole rig level. Here is a shot of it as it looks loaded. You can see the links are only about 2/3 of the way towards the outer stop. I have two of these combos, on each end of one of my main ropes, for leap-frogging the TIP up a tree by swapping ends of the rope. The bottom of the photo is not all that clear but you can just make out the swivel with biner thru it. ZZ:RW.png
 

Joeybagodonuts

Well-Known Member
Well yeah.. now your showing it using the swivel & not connecting through the housing hole you were saying was ok to do.... obviously it's going to load different as it's a completely different scenario..
 

Mowerr

Well-Known Member
That guy from NC that installs tree swings, (certified Isa climber) did a video on using the zz srt and he convinced me the swivel is definitely strong enough for us. Part of the video he did a break test with the wrench on the zz like we would climb it srt. The housing around the ball broke, the swivel stayed intact with no damage I could see...which surprised me because I thought the housing would be stronger than the skinny swivel. I think it was a zz he climbed on for some time but I can't remember what weight it broke at but it was much higher than I thought it would be...I wanna say like 15-20kn or so. My memory isn't perfect but I think he did the pull test with Richard.
This wassnt the new zz model I should add.
You tube or treebuzz search zig zag srt.
 

Jonny

Well-Known Member
Did they have to use a stopper knot to break it?
It slips when overloaded normally, right?
 

Jonny

Well-Known Member
I’m just guessing, I’ve never seen a ZZ in real life. Looks like it’d slip before it’d break though. Akimbo slips a little if I bounce kinda hard on it, I like it.
 

Burrapeg

Well-Known Member
Well yeah.. now your showing it using the swivel & not connecting through the housing hole you were saying was ok to do.... obviously it's going to load different as it's a completely different scenario..
Sorry, I should have been more clear in my first description; I was not using the biner directly thru the hole but via a SS shackle that permanently holds the RW tether. I am sure the ZZ design went thru rigorous testing and would not have been released for use if not proven overwhelmingly safe, but at the same time I am not the only one who was worried about how skinny the neck of the swivel was. And I see the newest ZZ at WesSpur does not have the swivel. It just made me nervous to go to all the trouble of always lanyarding in, worrying about the TIP, etc. and then seeing my entire climb finally hanging on that skinny neck of aluminium. The added shackle unloads and bypasses the swivel, as well as holding the RW, and is piece of mind; and it only takes a moment to swing it out of the biner and go back to using only the swivel if I want to, for any particular climb or movement. But that is just my personal choice; I am not saying everyone should feel the same way. A lot of you guys probably weigh less than me and are a lot less load on a climbing system!
 

JeffGu

Well-Known Member
Yeah, the ZZ slips when you shock load it, like the RR and Akimbo. The 2019 version is available both with or without the swivel, for folks who are nervous about it. The one with the swivel is the ZigZag Plus.

You aren't going to break the swivel on any ZZ from version 2 and up. I'm pretty sure I would have done that by now, if it was possible. They're tougher than they look. I'm not sure that I want to admit to how I know this.
 

Joeybagodonuts

Well-Known Member
I’m just guessing, I’ve never seen a ZZ in real life. Looks like it’d slip before it’d break though. Akimbo slips a little if I bounce kinda hard on it, I like it.
Yeah for sure, it def slips before destroying as long as your not bending the link stack over a point of leverage, then all bets are off (like shows in the manual & as well as how other devices advise against)..

You never seen one? I thought you had alllllll the gadgets.. if u can get past the midline thing & your a Ddrt guy, there a pretty dope tool.. i can't think of anything i dislike about it.. there sooooooo freaking smooth... & fast as fuck if you roll like that.. tending/releasing is the same every single time & pitch doesn't really bugger it up all that bad. If you can roll with a low profile eye splice, like a FTC/Courant/Cousin line, the Midline thing isn't all that bad to deal with.

I'm not sure that I want to admit to how I know this.
Well..? You gunna let the cat out of the bag here or what? I triple dog dare yah!!!! Oooooo!
 

Jonny

Well-Known Member
Lol no I definitely don’t have all the gadgets, and I don’t do this stuff full time anymore but there may be a sole proprietorship tree service plan in my future, we’ll see. For now Akimbo, wrench and HH2 is more than enough but it doesn’t stop me from lusting after the Rope Runner. Also some belay and lanyard devices. I do like DdRT sometimes still though.
 

JeffGu

Well-Known Member
...let the cat out of the bag here or what?

LoL... well, I suppose. I was playing around with two MRT systems, both ZZ, and decided to try a relatively short, easy swing onto a limb about ten inches diameter. As you can imagine, swings are a whole different animal on two lines, and I didn't exactly execute according to plan. I slacked one line and swung to the limb, and just as I landed the other line grabbed (I hadn't slacked it enough) and that threw me totally off balance. What do I do? Immediately released the ZZ on the second line and promptly fell off the other side of the limb. Was definitely an "Oh, shit!" moment. I ended up with the ZZ on the line holding me against the limb, with me suspended pretty much under the limb, my weight keeping the ZZ pinned against it and I thought for sure that swivel stem would snap like a toothpick. Obviously, my weight was trying to send me back the way I came from. Well, it didn't break. I was able to use the other line to pull myself back up onto the limb, and I wasn't hurt. A little barkrash on one shoulder and arm, but I was pretty damn embarassed. I looked the ZZ over and it was fine. There was a little torque on the links when it happened, but it's none the worse for the wear.

I can't say that this is a good way to test device durability, but I was suitably impressed. There's a little wiggle room with the links, but you certainly don't want them getting torqued sideways. I got lucky, since my TIPs were both between where I started and where I was going. I was truly surprised that I didn't break anything... either metal, or bone.
 

chris_girard

Well-Known Member

Any of you chaps using one of these? I tried a pulley on my bridge but it was too easy to flop over sideways almost out of control. I went back to using just a ring so that there was a bit of friction. But this gadget looks like a real answer and probably very gentle on the bridge rope. Wish it was not quite so pricey.
Yup, I own one and love it. Definitely saves wear on my bridge.
 

TimBr

Official Well Known Greeter
Lol no I definitely don’t have all the gadgets, and I don’t do this stuff full time anymore but there may be a sole proprietorship tree service plan in my future, we’ll see. For now Akimbo, wrench and HH2 is more than enough but it doesn’t stop me from lusting after the Rope Runner. Also some belay and lanyard devices. I do like DdRT sometimes still though.
.....and now, the Rope Runner, correct? I hope you have a good time on it. I was wondering if the Akimbo popping off the tending device is bothering you at all, or if you get on with it just fine? This is probably not the right place for my questions, but I'd love to know which device ends up becoming your favorite, after you've had some time on all of them. Thanks.

Tim
 

Jonny

Well-Known Member
.....and now, the Rope Runner, correct? I hope you have a good time on it. I was wondering if the Akimbo popping off the tending device is bothering you at all, or if you get on with it just fine? This is probably not the right place for my questions, but I'd love to know which device ends up becoming your favorite, after you've had some time on all of them. Thanks.

Tim
That’s correct now, Tim :)
So far I’ve only done a quick ~40’ up and down with the Runner, so too early for me to say, but it was a beautifully smooth up and down on Xstatic. The Akimbo is sweet, and I got no complaints about it. So fast on and off and tends about the same as Runner. Descending is smooth now after washing the Xstatic.

It does pop off the tending point if it’s being pulled in any direction but up. I kinda like it doing that now, when I wanna disconnect from the chestie, I just lean/sit back a little.
 

Mowerr

Well-Known Member
Dmm small axxis swivel is the way to go. Just got one for my TM and love it. Couldn't imagine using a largE but so far this thing is perfect for me.
 

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