- Location
- North Idaho
New tool design-please vote!
- Thread starter familytreeman
- Start date
CutHighnLetFly
Been here a while
- Location
- Cape Cod, MA
i may use pole saws more than others on the ground, im cool with using 4 extensions for small cuts, no sweat. cut quality is what usually decides if i should just climb or if the sticks will work.
i think that handle would do more for me on the ground than in the tree. i never really use sticks in the tree, but ive spend some looong days on the ground and in the trees doing vine removals, and after awhile i was wishing for a grip on the extensions.
might want to put a scabbard on that set up, that would be my concern with in the tree. i wouldnt be a fan of the open saw blade swinging around my line / lanyard.
good luck!
i think that handle would do more for me on the ground than in the tree. i never really use sticks in the tree, but ive spend some looong days on the ground and in the trees doing vine removals, and after awhile i was wishing for a grip on the extensions.
might want to put a scabbard on that set up, that would be my concern with in the tree. i wouldnt be a fan of the open saw blade swinging around my line / lanyard.
good luck!
The_Archdruid
Participating member
I don't design tools or invent contraptions to make anything easier or safer or better for anyone - I want other people to suffer as I have, and be miserable and full of pain, with fingers like broken pretzels and their backs covered in lumps. So I am not the best person to comment on this improvement.
But I have spent a lot of time in trees with pruners and pole saws. And I prefer to hang them in the tree, at arm's length; or throw a girth hitch around the neck with a piece of webbing, if I need to take them further. What I can't stand, and will not abide, is having them sent upside down to me.
I once had a groundman who did this - he tied the pruner on backwards and let me pull it up through the canopy. When it finally got to me and I realized how it was, I quickly untied the thing and gripped it like a spear. I felt like Queequeg firing down into the white whale. I missed, but he got the point.
But I have spent a lot of time in trees with pruners and pole saws. And I prefer to hang them in the tree, at arm's length; or throw a girth hitch around the neck with a piece of webbing, if I need to take them further. What I can't stand, and will not abide, is having them sent upside down to me.
I once had a groundman who did this - he tied the pruner on backwards and let me pull it up through the canopy. When it finally got to me and I realized how it was, I quickly untied the thing and gripped it like a spear. I felt like Queequeg firing down into the white whale. I missed, but he got the point.
- Location
- Southern Appalachian Mtns, NC
A design improvement I could see would be a handle that would act in the same way as a pipe clamp would. Something that fits over the pole itself, is easily adjustable and quick locking. There might be something like that out there already however.
Also add a male end to the bottom of your design and it's mid/top point attachable.
Also add a male end to the bottom of your design and it's mid/top point attachable.
familytreeman
New member
- Location
- MN
I also work with the pole saw from the ground quite a bit, and this is where the handle has been used most.
It does give the extra grip for those long reach, or hard pulls on that extra stuck snag.
However, there is still the need to take the hand off the handle and put back on repeatedly, which is why I also designed one without a full guard.
As far as blade storage near rope :
remember our other option is to hang the pole above or near us , which means the blade/hook can hit the CLIMBER if tool is knocked out
We have to watch our climbing saws on ropes also
Thanks for mentioning cut quality!
It does give the extra grip for those long reach, or hard pulls on that extra stuck snag.
However, there is still the need to take the hand off the handle and put back on repeatedly, which is why I also designed one without a full guard.
As far as blade storage near rope :
remember our other option is to hang the pole above or near us , which means the blade/hook can hit the CLIMBER if tool is knocked out
We have to watch our climbing saws on ropes also
Thanks for mentioning cut quality!
familytreeman
New member
- Location
- MN
[ QUOTE ]
A design improvement I could see would be a handle that would act in the same way as a pipe clamp would. Something that fits over the pole itself, is easily adjustable and quick locking. There might be something like that out there already however.
Also add a male end to the bottom of your design and it's mid/top point attachable.
[/ QUOTE ]
(Sherrill has a hose clamp perpendicular attached handle available. Im sorry, but I think I could break that off with my hands, or it certainly would break in the industry.
My handles attach with an actual ferrule.)
I also have a perpendicular design, and a mid pole attachment like you mentioned with both male and female.
Unfortunately, to be this strong the ferrule is needed, so a mid pole placement would rely on your custom pole length config and where you put it.
Thanks for your input. We do have some variations, but I was unable to attach a whole folder of files/pics and multiple designs...
A design improvement I could see would be a handle that would act in the same way as a pipe clamp would. Something that fits over the pole itself, is easily adjustable and quick locking. There might be something like that out there already however.
Also add a male end to the bottom of your design and it's mid/top point attachable.
[/ QUOTE ]
(Sherrill has a hose clamp perpendicular attached handle available. Im sorry, but I think I could break that off with my hands, or it certainly would break in the industry.
My handles attach with an actual ferrule.)
I also have a perpendicular design, and a mid pole attachment like you mentioned with both male and female.
Unfortunately, to be this strong the ferrule is needed, so a mid pole placement would rely on your custom pole length config and where you put it.
Thanks for your input. We do have some variations, but I was unable to attach a whole folder of files/pics and multiple designs...
familytreeman
New member
- Location
- MN
The tool does not get used in a tight canopy.
Therefore you would never pull it through anything, and certainly not pull it up inverted, unless you wanted it before a long limb walk
You would have it sent up regular into a large canopy-
Then you would use it naturally.
Once finished, you have the option of hanging it inverted if there is nowhere to put it safely and you may need to reposition to make another cut.
(The climber has to direct the groundies how to tie on tools correctly or they might come up wrong.)
Therefore you would never pull it through anything, and certainly not pull it up inverted, unless you wanted it before a long limb walk
You would have it sent up regular into a large canopy-
Then you would use it naturally.
Once finished, you have the option of hanging it inverted if there is nowhere to put it safely and you may need to reposition to make another cut.
(The climber has to direct the groundies how to tie on tools correctly or they might come up wrong.)
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
I can't see where you answered evo's issue re exposed blade and nicked ropes. This is a huge deal for us regular users of polesaws/pruners in trees. and hanging the head upside down is just asking for trouble ime.
Depending on the job, I typically attach the scabbard to my saddle as shown in the attached. And even with the kind of arthritis one only gets after pulverizing wrist bones in a fall, plus 48 years of arboriculture, grip is still not a big issue.
I'd buy it to try it, just because, but I'm not seeing the need. Thanks for thinking of us, anyway!
this solves the blade/scabbard issue: http://wickedtreegear.com/index_polesaw.html
the vid is old--they also have 15' size
Depending on the job, I typically attach the scabbard to my saddle as shown in the attached. And even with the kind of arthritis one only gets after pulverizing wrist bones in a fall, plus 48 years of arboriculture, grip is still not a big issue.
I'd buy it to try it, just because, but I'm not seeing the need. Thanks for thinking of us, anyway!
this solves the blade/scabbard issue: http://wickedtreegear.com/index_polesaw.html
the vid is old--they also have 15' size
familytreeman
New member
- Location
- MN
I understand how a pole saw can make climbers lazy. There are different levels of climber and some cant move extra tools about efficiently or position themselves properly, so give them a pole saw and it will slow some down.
For an advanced climber who has the climb planned efficiently and sees a need for a particular setup in advance knows which tools to ready and where, and moving a pole tool about a large canopy becomes second nature
I use a pole tool of varying sizes in almost every tree. Many trees I do not need to climb because I can poke out the deadwood with poles and make cuts that appear to have been made with a handsaw
Even if I climb all day, I still have additional reach with my pole saw, so I get extra trees done
This does not seem lazy to me.
Yes you do need the right angle, but I have seen guys climb right up close to something and still leave an angle stub because they were opposite side of limb
For a box store , it would just be a fixed or possible telescoping pole, but that is not the goal here. We just want to see if this tool would be useful in someones arsenal, or could help make a certain scenario safer.
Thanks much for your interest and input
For an advanced climber who has the climb planned efficiently and sees a need for a particular setup in advance knows which tools to ready and where, and moving a pole tool about a large canopy becomes second nature
I use a pole tool of varying sizes in almost every tree. Many trees I do not need to climb because I can poke out the deadwood with poles and make cuts that appear to have been made with a handsaw
Even if I climb all day, I still have additional reach with my pole saw, so I get extra trees done
This does not seem lazy to me.
Yes you do need the right angle, but I have seen guys climb right up close to something and still leave an angle stub because they were opposite side of limb
For a box store , it would just be a fixed or possible telescoping pole, but that is not the goal here. We just want to see if this tool would be useful in someones arsenal, or could help make a certain scenario safer.
Thanks much for your interest and input
familytreeman
New member
- Location
- MN
I did not solve Evo point of mention blade touching rope
I answered by stating that our chain saws aloft can touch the rope, so it is already something we have to watch for
This is a tricky subject, pole saw use differs greatly among crews/climbers
I answered by stating that our chain saws aloft can touch the rope, so it is already something we have to watch for
This is a tricky subject, pole saw use differs greatly among crews/climbers
familytreeman
New member
- Location
- MN
[ QUOTE ]
Depending on the job, I typically attach the scabbard to my saddle as shown in the attached.
[/ QUOTE ]
Im glad you are lanyarding the tool, this is great
personally I find it dangerous to have the scabbard attached to harness and working the blade into it
Also doesnt the tip of blade sometimes work its way through the tip of some scabbards?
Ive never tried pole scabbard on belt, but I would be afraid to bring that blade so close to me, my hands and gear
what if someone dropped it while taking it out , could get cut?
Depending on the job, I typically attach the scabbard to my saddle as shown in the attached.
[/ QUOTE ]
Im glad you are lanyarding the tool, this is great
personally I find it dangerous to have the scabbard attached to harness and working the blade into it
Also doesnt the tip of blade sometimes work its way through the tip of some scabbards?
Ive never tried pole scabbard on belt, but I would be afraid to bring that blade so close to me, my hands and gear
what if someone dropped it while taking it out , could get cut?
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
Im glad you are lanyarding the tool, this is great
& Sometimes lanyarding, but in the ring on the scabbard can clip straight on the saddle
personally I find it dangerous to have the scabbard attached to harness and working the blade into it
& It can be as little tricky, you need 2 hands free.
Also doesnt the tip of blade sometimes work its way through the tip of some scabbards?
&Not if the scabbbard is any good. I use the hooked blades so that is a nonissue. The big issue is nicking ropes--or flesh, and your reply that we already have to look out for chainsaws was kinda weak: 1, polesaws have much bigger and pointier teeth, and 2, I seldom use a chainsaw in a tree because I avoid large (damaging) cuts.
Ive never tried pole scabbard on belt, but I would be afraid to bring that blade so close to me, my hands and gear.
what if someone dropped it while taking it out , could get cut?
&Think about it; one hand on pole head, one hand undoing scabbard. Pretty good control. Saw could get dropped more likely from mishandling or hanging in the wrong place (7 stitches in scalp tell me that)
& zale, how would you make the cut in the pic by hand? I don't get the fanaticism about the perfect angled cut each and every time. In young wood the wound will close regardless. If the tree doesn't care, why should we?
& Sometimes lanyarding, but in the ring on the scabbard can clip straight on the saddle
personally I find it dangerous to have the scabbard attached to harness and working the blade into it
& It can be as little tricky, you need 2 hands free.
Also doesnt the tip of blade sometimes work its way through the tip of some scabbards?
&Not if the scabbbard is any good. I use the hooked blades so that is a nonissue. The big issue is nicking ropes--or flesh, and your reply that we already have to look out for chainsaws was kinda weak: 1, polesaws have much bigger and pointier teeth, and 2, I seldom use a chainsaw in a tree because I avoid large (damaging) cuts.
Ive never tried pole scabbard on belt, but I would be afraid to bring that blade so close to me, my hands and gear.
what if someone dropped it while taking it out , could get cut?
&Think about it; one hand on pole head, one hand undoing scabbard. Pretty good control. Saw could get dropped more likely from mishandling or hanging in the wrong place (7 stitches in scalp tell me that)
& zale, how would you make the cut in the pic by hand? I don't get the fanaticism about the perfect angled cut each and every time. In young wood the wound will close regardless. If the tree doesn't care, why should we?
Attachments
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
I'm not meaning to sound harsh. I truly appreciate your ingenuity and passion about making a useful tool. To be blunt, I think you should be putting your efforts into a different idea, perhaps a redesign. I'm sure that if you produce this idea that it will sell. It won't be any sort of revolutionary product however. So let's say that your potential market is 100,000 arborist you might sell 5,000 or so, but why not try to make something that 60,000 of that market would use? I personally own a silky long boy pole saw, and have lanyard connection options on either end, the blade folds down if I don't want to use a scabbard (for me this was the selling points). The saw we use at work has a home made (throw line) lanyard attachment right below the head. The lanyard gets clipped on there and with a 1/2 hitch around the tip makes for a guard of sorts for the cutting edge. We hang this saw off of a hip attachment point on our saddle. It dangles just below our feet. Since the saw blade is on the out side of our body, and our climbing line tail generally lives between our legs there is very little rope/saw contact.
To be honest I don't see any point in the knuckle guard, just another closed loop to get hung up on stuff. The idea of a some sort of hand grip is intriguing, but for me not important enough to mess with if it involves extra steps to remember to put it on.
To be honest I don't see any point in the knuckle guard, just another closed loop to get hung up on stuff. The idea of a some sort of hand grip is intriguing, but for me not important enough to mess with if it involves extra steps to remember to put it on.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
BigWood
Participating member
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
31' of standard sectional poles?! Musta had some major weeble wobble.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bro, its like a spaghetti noodle, but ya gotta crotch or limb support the pole at midsection and it works great.
Also, I start with a 15 or 16 , then continuously add a section at a time until I push it up and out far enough to make the grab
Yes I can climb, and without spurs even, but if I can use some pole to reach something from the ground quick vs. full climb , I choose save time.
I dont leave stub cuts or make lazy pruning choices, just use the best tool for me per scenario.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've done that! Used all the poles on the truck and was 3' short, lucky for me my leaf rake handle fitted inside the last section. A little duct tape later and the hanger was down and stub cut. Pre gopro though.... Damn it!
[ QUOTE ]
31' of standard sectional poles?! Musta had some major weeble wobble.
[/ QUOTE ]
Bro, its like a spaghetti noodle, but ya gotta crotch or limb support the pole at midsection and it works great.
Also, I start with a 15 or 16 , then continuously add a section at a time until I push it up and out far enough to make the grab
Yes I can climb, and without spurs even, but if I can use some pole to reach something from the ground quick vs. full climb , I choose save time.
I dont leave stub cuts or make lazy pruning choices, just use the best tool for me per scenario.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've done that! Used all the poles on the truck and was 3' short, lucky for me my leaf rake handle fitted inside the last section. A little duct tape later and the hanger was down and stub cut. Pre gopro though.... Damn it!
familytreeman
New member
- Location
- MN
[ QUOTE ]
The big issue is nicking ropes--or flesh, and your reply that we already have to look out for chainsaws was kinda weak: 1, polesaws have much bigger and pointier teeth, and 2, I seldom use a chainsaw in a tree because I avoid large (damaging) cuts.
[/ QUOTE ]
Like I said , inverting is not ideal . for the two reasons you guys pointed out: flipping the unit up and down , and the blade near rope
I came here for help and answers so I cant defend all the flaws in the design but am looking for ideas/help
Attached is the second batch of designs
The big issue is nicking ropes--or flesh, and your reply that we already have to look out for chainsaws was kinda weak: 1, polesaws have much bigger and pointier teeth, and 2, I seldom use a chainsaw in a tree because I avoid large (damaging) cuts.
[/ QUOTE ]
Like I said , inverting is not ideal . for the two reasons you guys pointed out: flipping the unit up and down , and the blade near rope
I came here for help and answers so I cant defend all the flaws in the design but am looking for ideas/help
Attached is the second batch of designs
Attachments
- Location
- North Idaho
[ QUOTE ]
Zale, how about this cut location; by hand?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure some guys could get that by hand. Granted we're talking about the elite here. I'm with you. I use a pole saw.
Zale, how about this cut location; by hand?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure some guys could get that by hand. Granted we're talking about the elite here. I'm with you. I use a pole saw.
familytreeman
New member
- Location
- MN
Even if you can climb way out to the tippies for a nice handsaw cut,
Many guys are weighing close to 200lbs on average with all that gear maybe. Say some smaller limb cannot support that sometime, better safe not to risk it.
It takes time to do the extra climbing, and you can simply point and shoot with your pole
Many guys are weighing close to 200lbs on average with all that gear maybe. Say some smaller limb cannot support that sometime, better safe not to risk it.
It takes time to do the extra climbing, and you can simply point and shoot with your pole
familytreeman
New member
- Location
- MN
No offense taken, I am welcoming the input
I have multiple Arborist tool designs and I am balancing time between them, I do not have my heart set on this as a make or break project, I am redesigning it and thats why Im here for help to determine if its a valid option or not
This one is highly debatable since it involves a pole saw and many of us use the tool differently or not at all
"The saw we use at work has a home made (throw line) lanyard attachment right below the head. The lanyard gets clipped on there and with a 1/2 hitch around the tip makes for a guard of sorts for the cutting edge. We hang this saw off of a hip attachment point on our saddle. It dangles just below our feet. Since the saw blade is on the out side of our body, and our climbing line tail generally lives between our legs there is very little rope/saw contact."
Here you mention how it is possible to keep the sharp blade away from ropes. I also keep the tail of rope away from saw side when possible.
I have multiple Arborist tool designs and I am balancing time between them, I do not have my heart set on this as a make or break project, I am redesigning it and thats why Im here for help to determine if its a valid option or not
This one is highly debatable since it involves a pole saw and many of us use the tool differently or not at all
"The saw we use at work has a home made (throw line) lanyard attachment right below the head. The lanyard gets clipped on there and with a 1/2 hitch around the tip makes for a guard of sorts for the cutting edge. We hang this saw off of a hip attachment point on our saddle. It dangles just below our feet. Since the saw blade is on the out side of our body, and our climbing line tail generally lives between our legs there is very little rope/saw contact."
Here you mention how it is possible to keep the sharp blade away from ropes. I also keep the tail of rope away from saw side when possible.
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