Need your Vote and Opinion about business owners not willing to learn to climb.

Do you know a tree service business owner who never climbed a tree for work purposes?

  • Total voters
    26
DonaldRobertson

DonaldRobertson

Location
Youngstown, Ohio
Admin: please move this post if you believe it should be in the rant and rave section.

Ok, I'm looking for your opinions on tree service business owners who never climbed a day in their life for work purposes and are not willing to learn to climb to do their own work.

A little about me, I have been doing tree work for 4 years now, climbing for 3 years and operating my own 20-60 hour work week business for 2 years and helping other business' out all at the same time while my work is slow. The other (2) business owners I help out have not climbed a day in their life for work or recreational purposes and are not willing to learn how to do their own work and I'm the one who is always relied upon to do their work. I am always telling them they are in the wrong business if they can't do their own work on their own. Their excuses for not climbing is "I'm afraid of heights" or "I have no coordination and my arms are always hurting" so that's why I don't climb or want to learn. I believe everything you do in life is all about trial and error. I, myself was only confident to climb up to about 40 feet or so due being nervous of working at heights and now I exceeded my limitations and have no problem whatsoever about climbing to 75+ feet.

Basically, What is your opinion about business owners who are not willing to learn how to climb and what would you do to talk them into learning how to do their own climbing? I am a person who loves teaching people new things as long as they are willing to learn.
 
I disagree. Owning a business (any business) is very complex. I have an accountant because I don't know tax stuff. I could learn but it isn't where my strengths are. But I also don't tell my accountant how to do his job. As long as a business owner respects the fact he can not do something and accepts others knowledge and expertise then it is fine.

Chris
 
Some people are climbers, some people are businessman. They are two different skills and not everyone has both of them. That being said, I do wonder why people get into the industry if they don't at least have a basic knowledge of how to perform the work. As an owner/operator I can get bent out of shape about guys who are only owner's. I am reminded though, that a good business person knows how to delegate. You cannot be both the primary climber and the primary businessman forever. Simply put, you will burn out. I am currently experiencing burn out at the worst possible time for my company. I have new employees to train, our client base has exploded and I don't really feel like going to work a lot of days knowing that I won't be completely done for 14 hours.
One of the biggest problems I have seen with under qualified owners is an unwillingness to let their employees try out newer techniques and equipment. Their knowledge base is small and since they no longer perform the work, it isn't expanding.
I'm not a fan of business people who don't know their industry but frankly, they aren't going away.
 
Anyone who estimates or consults on the work should know how to do it, imo. But your motive for asking is unclear--if these guys did their own climbing, they wouldn't give you so much business. Why go out of your way to improve your competition?

If you love teaching new things you must first have a willing student. Better to ask why your work is slow at times, and fix that. Maybe your rate as a sub is too low; raise it and they will be more motivated.
 
In the past I have worked for both owners who were strictly business men, and owners who were good climbers/tree workers. Owners who exercised talent in tree work prior to being a company owner were more compassionate to their employees and arboriculture as a whole. They seem to understand the ups and downs, the mistakes, learning curves, and how efficiencies develop over time with a crew; instead of having a primary focus on money, money, money. No one wishes to be treated as only a commodity. The money will come naturally, if your mind is geared towards helping employees and customers. This creates a more optimum work environment for new climbers to learn, veteran climbers to flourish. As well as mutual respect for the boss.

But this isn't to say that someone without tree experience can't be a good boss and bring all great things to a tree company. It is simply what I have observed over time.
 
guy, im only on my 2nd year of operating my own business so therefore i am still building reputation. during the spring and all the way til mid summer of this year i was working up to 60 hours on my own and now just slowing down a tad bit so when i have a little downtime thats when i help these other business owners out who do not climb and refuse to do so,
 
One of the bigger tree co's near me is owned by an ex-c0p who hasn't ever climbed. He's grown the business successfully. Is it an ideal operation, no. But, that's really not so different by a climber run business. If you've read any of my posts you'll know my mantra, your a business man first a tree guy second. What you want in a non-climbing owner is an appreciation of the skill set that a climber has and a willingness to learn from them what they need to make the business run successfully.

Does that mean knowing how to climb? Nope, but it does mean to know how to facilitate a climber's development and growth to always be productive and ensure the company is competitive. A good business person understands the fundamentals that go into a successful business. They know where they lack competencies and hire those that do have it. They respect their employees and provide them the means to communicate their knowledge back into the business. By doing this they can hone their estimates to reflect the crew as they exist at the moment not as they hope they are, plan for their professional development and for the business to adopt appropriate technologies.

So Donald, instead of trying to get them to climb, convey to them the information they need in order to do their job, that's run the business. How close was the estimate to the reality? What aspect of the job went to plan and which didn't. Your role is really to communicate those details to them so they'll get a better understanding of the crew's work, all of it, not just the climbing but everything from the rolling up on the job, thru the execution, to the the breaking down and packing up.
 
MikePowers321 said:
In the past I have worked for both owners who were strictly business men, and owners who were good climbers/tree workers. Owners who exercised talent in tree work prior to being a company owner were more compassionate to their employees and arboriculture as a whole. They seem to understand the ups and downs, the mistakes, learning curves, and how efficiencies develop over time with a crew; instead of having a primary focus on money, money, money. No one wishes to be treated as only a commodity. The money will come naturally, if your mind is geared towards helping employees and customers. This creates a more optimum work environment for new climbers to learn, veteran climbers to flourish. As well as mutual respect for the boss.

But this isn't to say that someone without tree experience can't be a good boss and bring all great things to a tree company. It is simply what I have observed over time.
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X2 mike-I've always found it easier to respect a boss who is at least capable of performing the work, even if they choose not to. Much easier to jive with someone who has been where you are.
 
Kind of on topic, but our new law will require business owners to take reasonable steps to do/know/develop/have (among other things):

...
an understanding of the nature of the operations of the business, and generally of the hazards and risks associated with those operations;
...
 
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Fairly common in Arboriculture for team members to expect/require aerial skill from their leaders. This may be misguided depending on the players. Ultimately the effectiveness of the leader will be revealed, wether they have aerial tenure or not.

http://www.u-leadership.com/the_21_irrefutable_laws_of_leadership-w.pdf

See laws #1, 2, 4, 7, 9, 10, 13, 15, 18

Ultimately they all apply, but to me the above have bearing on the original post
 
DonaldRobertson said:
Admin: please move this post if you believe it should be in the rant and rave section.

Ok, I'm looking for your opinions on tree service business owners who never climbed a day in their life for work purposes and are not willing to learn to climb to do their own work.

A little about me, I have been doing tree work for 4 years now, climbing for 3 years and operating my own 20-60 hour work week business for 2 years and helping other business' out all at the same time while my work is slow. The other (2) business owners I help out have not climbed a day in their life for work or recreational purposes and are not willing to learn how to do their own work and I'm the one who is always relied upon to do their work. I am always telling them they are in the wrong business if they can't do their own work on their own. Their excuses for not climbing is "I'm afraid of heights" or "I have no coordination and my arms are always hurting" so that's why I don't climb or want to learn. I believe everything you do in life is all about trial and error. I, myself was only confident to climb up to about 40 feet or so due being nervous of working at heights and now I exceeded my limitations and have no problem whatsoever about climbing to 75+ feet.

Basically, What is your opinion about business owners who are not willing to learn how to climb and what would you do to talk them into learning how to do their own climbing? I am a person who loves teaching people new things as long as they are willing to learn.
Click to expand...
I climbed my whole life and own my own business. I do all climbing and never find myself in a jam, when it comes down to the irresponsible attendance records most tree climbers have.
My buddy Mike has his own bus. cant climb if his climber dont show up hes screwed especially if I cant help out. Buy and Learn how to use a bucket. Easier to fill position.If limited funds get bucket w/ chip box, or learn how to climb
 
I was taught that the best fruit is in the top of the tree. I am to be the fifth generation to own the company. This is a business i grew up in . I have mastered every position to earn my reputation along with the respect of our employees. They know i understand what is possible and what isn't. Without my experience i think i wouldn't be capable to compete with my competitorsimage_2.webp
 
I think ALL of the big companies around here are run by business men. Not tree climbers. Understanding the business is a must, knowing how to do everything yourself is not. The really successful guys around here hire guys with the tree knowledge, they bring the business knowledge.

Most tree guys I know are horrible business owners.
 
As a contract climber I have climbed for all types of tree services. Like others have said, most "tree guys" are horrible businessmen. A true tree guy loves trees. He is in it for the love. Businessmen are in it for the money. My favorite people to work for are the small "in it for the love" companies or companies owned by current or former climbers that have done the work for years and understand what the crews are dealing with. The company owners who drive me crazy are the ones that have never consistently done production work and have no real idea of how the work is done or how difficult it is. They think that just because a tree of a certain species took 1 hour last time that every tree that size will take that same amount of time and rarely think about the other factors involved.

If I had a wife, kids, and a mortgage, I would work for a businessman because the money would be steady and plentiful. As it is now, I'm in it for the love.
 
If we as climbers don't take the time to educate the businessperson that is generating the work then we're not doing our job. It's a feedback loop in the company. A good business owner recognizes the need for this no less than they see it for their accounting. You do yourself and the company a disservice if you're not clarifying the nuances of each job so they gain the understanding of how each tree varies.
 
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guymayor said:
Anyone who estimates or consults on the work should know how to do it, imo. But your motive for asking is unclear--if these guys did their own climbing, they wouldn't give you so much business. Why go out of your way to improve your competition?

If you love teaching new things you must first have a willing student. Better to ask why your work is slow at times, and fix that. Maybe your rate as a sub is too low; raise it and they will be more motivated.
Click to expand...

I think I remember reading a post by Reg Coates in which he basically admitted that part of his goal as a contract climber was to get the owner/climber to forget how to climb, or to have the owner lose confidence in the owner/climber's ability to handle the tough trees. It meant more work for Reg. He wanted to become indispensable to the owner.

So, if these non-climbing owners need help because they can't do it themselves, it does put the climber in a better position to demand a higher wage.

Tim
 
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