Moving in the canopy with near vertical limbs

[owScott]

 

[owScott]

End weight reduction over 2 story house. Plains Cottonwood

 

[Phil]

This whole back and forth reminds me of the opening theme song from the TV show "different strokes"

"Now the world doesn't move to the beat of just one drum, what might be right for you may not be right for some..."

 

[islandarb]

I’m not saying anyone is advocating for less safety!

This conversation all started when someone started talking about being fast and racing with other climbers and that kind of language can get people killed if they misinterpret it.

I’m not talking about myself on here.

I’m talking about climbers in general. Especially new climbers who may be on here. Fast is not always better. Fast while efficient is king.

To the extra gear issue. I’ve done tons of jobs where I’ve used one rope. It wasn’t until more recently in my climbing career that the thought occurred to me to try experimenting. And then a thought went off, in these bigger trees what if when I ascend to set my main TIP I quickly set another line in another leader to work a different side of the tree? Even if I could easily do it with 1 rope, why not hop on 1 system and off the other, or use both keep that comfortable position, etc.?

It’s nothing to do with being necessary just personal choice. The same jobs I’ve climbed with two lines on are the same jobs I’ve done many times over with one rope in the past. Nothing to do with experience, just changing technique.

And I don’t usually climb srt, I climb ddrt. Personal choice. So if I’m using two lines I’m usually using two ddrt lines. Not doing redirects with one line, etc.

And I thought I said that it depends on the situation. I’m not saying you need to go every tree with extra gear. Everyone can use whatever tactic they want.

How long have you been climbing?

 

[islandarb]

I can climb big trees too with 1 rope. No extra gear.

View attachment 73515

I will state I never question somrone's prowess in the trees on the internet. Unless they post some nauseating vid showing otherwise. I was doing my usual chiming in nonsense. Had little bearing on actual life.

 

[Phil]

The biggest "aha!" moment in my career was realizing that there is a secret to being fast. That secret is to just get out there and cut it.

I remember several "aha moments" myself. One was learning to limbwalk while still in college. The other was working full-time doing utility trimming/removals in a rural area of the Midwest. The folks I worked with were salt of the earth types...my college education was something they picked on me for. I had a fancy harness, custom made lanyards, fiberglass gecko spurs, a helmet with a chin strap, jangly things that made me a cat's wet dream. They had blake's and tautline hitchs with a single rope snap, a three strand buck strap with a built in spliced prusik and some heavy steel buckingham spurs. They used to call me the educated idiot from Chicago... I'm cool with that, I got thick skin. They used to say I made the easy stuff look hard and the hard stuff look easy. When I first started there I was using gadgets all the time, but these guys were getting the same work done with none of that. So I watched as we worked. My aha moment was the KISS principle. Keep it simple stupid. I didn't need all that fancy stuff for 90% of what we were doing. But when it came time for that other 10%, these guys always looked at me to get it done because my gadgets (and knowledge of how to use them) were going to make short work of it with a third the effort they would have used. To put it in easy to understand terms... I almost watched a dude die by gaffing out because his buckstrap was too short to get around a tree for ascent so he went up without it on. I would have throwlined in and gone srs straight to the top.

There's definitely a place for the gadgets, but I will always look through the KISS lens first. Experience and developing better technique will expand how big the KISS lens is. I have physical issues that I need to take into account as well. I tend to cramp up quickly, especially in my arms and hands and especially in the summer heat. If I'm looking at how to get up a naked near vertical stem, I have to decide if brute forcing it is really ok. If I get up there and I'm gassed with still having another tree to prune later or a another vertical stem to go after, prolly not a good idea for me to brute force it. Out comes the stirrup or another climbing aid. I don't need to be making fatigue mistakes later.

 

[islandarb]

Roughly 5-6 years, around there.

Ready for everyone to start screaming newbie, inexperienced, slow....

Carry on. My style and opinions might be a little different then some but, I’ve never approached climbing as how to get it done as fast as possible. I’m not on a big crew trying to bang out multiple jobs a day ya know? I might just do one job a day, finish sometime in the morning or early afternoon (occasionally I have all day jobs or large jobs that run multiple days) and then be done and work on other things I need to do outside of jobs themselves.

Not here to judge. That is not my style. Was just curious. I just do me....I mostly come here to assist in topics like climbing gear setups. Things about gear etc.

 

[rico]

Not here to judge. That is not my style. Was just curious. I just do me....I mostly come here to assist in topics like climbing gear setups. Things about gear etc.

On that note, how are you digging your Evo bruv? I had a chance to ride one for 2 days...Beautiful saddle, and if I wasn't so in love with my S.light I would have bought one straight away...

 

[islandarb]

On that note, how are you digging your Evo bruv? I had a chance to ride one for 2 days...Beautiful saddle, and if I wasn't so in love with my S.light I would have bought one straight away...

Love.......love the damn thing. Have a year and a half on it. Lower Ds and two bridges really are nice. Creates new work positioning options that I could have done with one bridge but more comfy. Game changer? Not really but a nice improvement. Jet step is insanely good. Never donned a CT since. Thanks.

 

[laddo]

This is my preferred method if pruning. 10 easy minutes on ground vs 20 strenuous min in tree.

Otherwise loop slings and walk up, but it's slow.

If there are any side branches or stubs, I'll just "rock climb" moving my lanyard up to prevent a slip and swing.

If I have a high enough main TIP relative to the target crotch on the vertical limb of interest, I can also use a throwbag and get groundie to pull tail through desired crotch on target limb. Groundie will take up slack and wrap tail around tree. I will just traverse the taught line over to somewhere at/below the target crotch and then climb from there. BE CAREFUL with the forces though! A 170 degree rope angle at the point where your hitch attaches generates 6X your body weight at each of the 2 TIP locations. I am very mindful of the limb behavior and watch it closely. It's basically a human speedline.

You can also bear hug and shimmie up. Actually not too bad with smaller diameters and chainsaw pants, but you might eventually destroy them.

Oh, and you can swing, but that generally only gets you so far depending on TIP height. Again, watch the forces here. I have no clue how much force this puts on main TIP.

Ive always wondered what types of forces were going on in a swing. Anybody know of someone testing this??


• Aim High, Climb Trees •

 

[laddo]

Wowzer. That sounds heavy


• Aim High, Climb Trees •

 

[Birdyman88]

Ive always wondered what types of forces were going on in a

Haha, funny you ask. Just watched a webinar last week where they tested this stuff. He summarizes the results near end od video.

 

[laddo]

Haha, funny you ask. Just watched a webinar last week where they tested this stuff. He summarizes the results near end od video.

Haha I signed up for that webinar but missed it!!! Havent watched the recording yet but I will now! Thanks mate!


• Aim High, Climb Trees •

 

[Sprucinator]

I would just get almost level with the branch you're aiming to go out to. Tie monkey fist on your tail and throw it over and get it to come down a ways, then descend down underneath it and swing over to grab your tail. Then set up a second system (MRS) with your tail (if you don't have an extra prussik or system to use then just use a blakes hitch. Then by gauging the stability of the new tip trying to keep both systems balanced in weight. Drifting from one tie in point to the another is so much fun.

 

[Tuebor]

I would just get almost level with the branch you're aiming to go out to. Tie monkey fist on your tail and throw it over and get it to come down a ways, then descend down underneath it and swing over to grab your tail. Then set up a second system (MRS) with your tail (if you don't have an extra prussik or system to use then just use a blakes hitch. Then by gauging the stability of the new tip trying to keep both systems balanced in weight. Drifting from one tie in point to the another is so much fun.

What if there's no way to descend beneath it, unless you go all the way to the ground?

What if there are intervening limbs below and between the stems that keep you from bringing your tail down with you?

 

[dmonn]

Not a universal technique, but when it can work it's a nice way to go. I've actually done that once or twice, and it is fun. Tuebor, you noted some situations where it's not going to work very well. Thanks.

 

[Sprucinator]

In terms of getting underneath it

What if there's no way to descend beneath it, unless you go all the way to the ground?

What if there are intervening limbs below and between the stems that keep you from bringing your tail down with you?

In terms of getting underneath it, what I meant was descend low enough to swing over and get underneath it enough to grab your tail.
And I'm a little confused on the second bit. You throw your tail over with a monkey fist, then whip it and with enough weight from the monkey fist it'll come down and you can guide it through limbs by doing so (or just use a throw weight). If you're talking about isolating, you don't really need to. You just get up to the interfering branches and lanyard in, move your system around the branch and clip back in.
A 2 in 1 lanyard system would make this very easy by just leap-frogging up and and setting your final tip when you get to the top

 

[Tuebor]

With respect to the first part, I mean if I toss my tail through a union on another stem, when it unrolls, the tail is hanging in free space and there's nothing beneath it, except the ground. And when I descend, I get no closer to it, or there's nothing lower to move horizontally on to grab it.

With the second part, I was imagining your suggestion as DdRT on the tail. As I descend, my tail going up through the union I threw into, can't maintain a clear path with without draping over some limb that's lower and between the stems. So when I get to the end of my tail to set up a DdRT system, I've got more than one limb trapped within the loop. In other words, I can't keep my tail isolated on one union and still reach my tail.

 

[Jehinten]

With respect to the first part, I mean if I toss my tail through a union on another stem, when it unrolls, the tail is hanging in free space and there's nothing beneath it, except the ground. And when I descend, I get no closer to it, or there's nothing lower to move horizontally on to grab it.

With the second part, I was imagining your suggestion as DdRT on the tail. As I descend, my tail going up through the union I threw into, can't maintain a clear path with without draping over some limb that's lower and between the stems. So when I get to the end of my tail to set up a DdRT system, I've got more than one limb trapped within the loop. In other words, I can't keep my tail isolated on one union and still reach my tail.

To get the tail, once you've descended you'll have a better fulcrum to swing over and grab it. As for it not being isolated, there is that possibility and you can lanyard in and bypass those lower limbs with your Ddrt system to continue up.

 

[Tuebor]

I'll have to draw a picture later, but the issue I have on one of my trees is a gently leaning stem on one side, and several arcing stems on the other side. When I'm high enough to throw across to a crotch, it's about 30' away. When I descend, I can't get any closer than maybe 20'. When I'm low enough to have a long enough pendulum to swing that far, there's nothing for me to stand on to swing from. Or if there is, I can't get 20' out to swing 40' over to my tail.