MAD for residential service drops

Bart,

That is weather proofing on the service drop you are speaking of not insulation.

It is a small point, but I find when you realize many features of the electrical distribution system are designed to protect the system and not you, your mindset changes for the better.

my .02

Tony
For once, I must disagree with you there. I’m not sure I ever expected to do that!

Service entrance cables typically do have insulation, both aerial and underground. Aerial service cable is called Triplex, and has three conductors - two are insulated aluminum conductors, those are the “hot” wires.

The uninsulated conductor is made of ACSR (Aluminum Cable, Steel Reinforced - it’s also aluminum cable, but it has a central steel strand, to carry the load when the cable is hung) and that cable is the Neutral, during normal operating conditions that cable is not energized, and can be safely handled by an electrician.

Primary conductors, however, that are covered are not insulated, they are just wrapped with a protective coating to protect the cable. That rubber coating will let you get shocked just as if it wasn’t there.
 
But.........Should the average person be confident the coating/insulation is designed to prevent them from getting electrocuted? I practice and preach no it isn't.
No, the average person should not touch those lines. Perhaps I should’ve clarified that in my most recent remarks, though I did explain that rather clearly in my first comment.

If you are not trained to work with those lines, and confident in what you are doing, and know what you are looking at, you are not qualified to be near the lines. Stay away!
 
The covering on service drops is insulation. On a newly installed drop you could handle it all you want. On an old weather checked one, or one that has been rubbing on tree branches, buildings, roofs, etc. Keep your mitts off. It is not rocket science. Unless you have been trained to work around power lines, don't be messing around near them.
That weatherproofing legend has been around way too long and needs to go. And whoever mentioned it here needs to stay away from power lines because they do not understand what they are talking about.
 
Everthing is both insulating and conducting, to various degrees. Most are much more of one than the other.
That is true, but it is put on service drop lines for the sole purpose of being insulation. Most overheads are two insulated hots and one uninsulated neutral. If it were there as weather proofing, it would have it on the neutral as well. It is meant to insulate the hots from shorting to each other or to the neutral. Period. The weather proofing wives tale needs to go away. It was probably started by someone to scare someone else from getting near them. That might have some merit, but it is still a lie, and we have enough lies going around these days. Let's propagate facts and knowledge to be safe.
 
But.........Should the average person be confident the coating/insulation is designed to prevent them from getting electrocuted? I practice and preach no it isn't.
You are correct. The insulation of service lines weather checks. Grab onto one that is 30 years old on a rainy day and you will understand that. But it all comes down to how well you are insulated as well. If you are up in a tree on a clear, dry day, the chances of you feeling anything at all are slim to none. 120 volts just doesn't have the force to go through you, your gear and clothing, boots, and a tree to ground. In terms of potential, 120 volts is pretty weak. Most of us have all been zapped at one time or another from something in our house. Makes your arm buzz and you say, Wow! Didn't kill you because you were insulated to a degree by your shoes, and the wooden floor you were standing on. Had you been standing bare foot on a metal beam you could easily have been killed. And what part of you it is going through makes a world of difference. Touch a hot line with one finger and a ground or neutral with another finger of the same hand and you will get a burnt fingers and hand because the current goes through your hand. Touch a hot with a finger on one hand and a neutral with the finger on the other hand and the current goes through your chest. Dead.
The service drop is no more or less dangerous than what is in your house, and has no more potential than what is at your outlets in your house. What it doesn't have is current breakers of 15 or 20 amps, but that doesn't make much difference because a half amp will kill you just as dead as 200.
If you need to work around a service drop with a ladder, use a wooden ladder. Insulated bucket truck. Or be up in a tree on a dry day. You can drop small branches on a service drop and nothing will happen, bare spots or not. They are not going to arc and flash and cause a fire. 120 volts just doesn't have that in it.
Think of an outlet in your house. I wouldn't hesitate to put the blade of a screwdriver with a plastic handle, or wooden handle on a hot screw of an outlet. That plastic handle or wooden handle is insulation enough to keep me from getting zapped. Same rules apply to service drops. Doesn't take much insulation to be safe from them.
We tend to get nervous around overhead wires because we have seen videos and pictures of tree workers having dropped a limb on a 20KV line and the fire and arcing that takes place. And pictures of fried people who have climbed up line towers and pole to steal copper where they are cooked like charcoal. Service lines to homes are not that. Respect them, for they can kill you if you do everything wrong. Knowlege is the best solution, not fear.
Don't give it a path to ground through you. That one rule alone will keep everybody safe.
 
That weatherproofing legend has been around way too long and needs to go. And whoever mentioned it here needs to stay away from power lines because they do not understand what they are talking about.
This ‘legend’ is part of the EHAP and also CTSP training I’ve gone through… but it never made sense to me, just like @Reach pointed out- why don’t the lines arc against themselves.
Curious what @CjM might say about the weatherproofing vs insulation language. He’s in the line clearance side of things.
 
I do line clearance and I am a master electrician.
Personally, I don't think much of EHAP program. One of the first things they try and scare you with is, 15% of arborists deaths are electrocutions, which probably is true, but they don't tell you that those electrocutions were on primary lines that those arborists had no business being around. You would be hard pressed to find an arborist that has been killed by a service drop. And if you did find one, chances are he was in a bucket truck and near a transformer and it had nothing to do with the service drop lines but whoever reported it didn't know the difference. I can't even picture how an arborist could get killed with a service drop. A good buzz maybe, but killed, no. Not if they are in a tree or in a bucket truck. it just isn't there. You can cut through it with your chainsaw and melt a bit of the bar and chain before it blows a fuse down the line. Won't kill or hurt you except for some spattering molten metal when it contacts both phases or a phase and the neutral.
I am not a fan of this scare tactic approach. Electricity is dangerous, but not something to be scared of either. Knowledge is a way better approach to being safe.

ps: After a major storm, and you come across a service drop that is torn down. Stay away from it. That would be the most dangerous scenario I can think of. If it were still hot, it wants to return home (ground), and if you grab it in a bare spot, or damaged spot, you are then its path back home.

pss: The only two reasons for insulation on service drops is, 1) they are low to the ground, and they don't want homeowners to be able to bump into them with long metal tools and such. And 2), they are putting two different phases and a neutral and wrapping them together to get to the building. They would short out when touched together without the insulation. Beyond service drops the only power lines with insulation are buried ones. If the weatherproofing myth were true, other lines would be covered as well.

psss: I have found roofers to be more knowledgeable about service drops than arborists. Roofers constantly lift them up with their hands to get under them. They are aware that they are well insulated, being on top of a roof and they are not going to get a shock, even if they touch a bare spot. Whereas arborists are told tales of death and destruction if you get too close to power lines. I really wish our industry taught more about the nature of electricity and less about fear.

Okay, I'm done. If I think of anything else, I will keep it to myself.
 
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Okay, I'm done. If I think of anything else, I will keep it to myself.
Why? I found this very insightful!

My first few years of tree work were in Brooklyn and service lines were everywhere- they never got dropped. I’m not saying that was a good thing… obviously that was against industry standards. But that was my introduction.

I can't even picture how an arborist could get killed with a service drop.
I’ve been wondering that myself.
 
@Shadowscape and @Reach, thanks for sharing your expertise here. I found it helpful. It confirms (and gives me more confidence in) much of what I have picked up here and there without any formal education. The electrical issue that concerns me the most, however, is dealing with the rare problem of a throwline that gets draped over the primary lines. This happened to me once when my throwbag hit a stem and ricocheted over the nearby primary lines in a residential neighborhood. Nothing happened, but I'm wondering how best to deal with this in the future. I don't know how to judge the voltage of the primary lines, but I look at the insulators on the poles to give me an idea. I am assuming that the shorter they are, the less the voltage, and the length of the insulator generally tells me the maximum arcing distance. Is this roughly correct? Also, how likely is it that the throwline would be unsafe to touch? Assuming basic dyneema, clean and dry, and I'm not standing in a puddle. Would a multimeter tell me if there is any current on the throwline if I set it to the maximum AC voltage, wrapped one probe on the line and stuck the other probe in the ground?
 
@Shadowscape and @Reach, thanks for sharing your expertise here. I found it helpful. It confirms (and gives me more confidence in) much of what I have picked up here and there without any formal education. The electrical issue that concerns me the most, however, is dealing with the rare problem of a throwline that gets draped over the primary lines. This happened to me once when my throwbag hit a stem and ricocheted over the nearby primary lines in a residential neighborhood. Nothing happened, but I'm wondering how best to deal with this in the future. I don't know how to judge the voltage of the primary lines, but I look at the insulators on the poles to give me an idea. I am assuming that the shorter they are, the less the voltage, and the length of the insulator generally tells me the maximum arcing distance. Is this roughly correct? Also, how likely is it that the throwline would be unsafe to touch? Assuming basic dyneema, clean and dry, and I'm not standing in a puddle. Would a multimeter tell me if there is any current on the throwline if I set it to the maximum AC voltage, wrapped one probe on the line and stuck the other probe in the ground?
Sorry, I was chuckling there for a moment. Not at your questions, but a picture that formed in my head...
You are correct on the more insulators the high the voltage, usually. I've seen some pretty off the wall insulator jobs however. But the theory is sound.
You have to be careful with throwlines and higher voltage lines. By higher voltage I am talking about 14-40KV (2-3 insulators). You are not likely to be working around high voltage lines. Throwlines vary in conductivity. A Dyneema line is not very conductive, and any powerline you are likely to have put it over will not fry you if you grab the line. But try not to do that if at all possible. If it scares you, grab the line with your pole saw and pull it back. Forget the multi-meter stunt. I have thrown my DynaGlide throwline over many higher voltage lines than you are likely to run across and have no concern about grabbing it and puling it back. A wet throwline is a different story. Probably not going to kill you but you might get the buzz of your life.
There may be some throwlines out there that this may not be safe doing this with. I ran across a throwline a few years ago that must have been made by some off the wall outfit because it had what looked like an aluminum tracer running through it. It may have just been mylar or some silver plastic, I didn't get a good enough look at it to tell. I am not going to say you can do it with any throwline, and safety is always first. But I would not worry about your Dyneema line and the powerlines you are likely to encounter.
That said, putting your throwline over two different phases of a high voltage tower at the same time may end up with a flash bang. In that case you don't need to worry about it being hot, you just need to go buy yourself another throwline because that one will be gone, but you shouldn't be working around those in the first place. I don't even work around those. I limit myself to 69KV by personal choice, and there really isn't a need for tree workers on anything higher voltage because they cut the right-of-ways back way beyond having a tree fall on them. There are line clearance workers who keep the trees pruned back on those right of ways, but the dangers they encounter are from the trees, not the power lines.
The high voltage lines don't worry me as much as the low voltage lines. Low voltage being the primary lines you encounter, 7.2-35KV lines. High voltage lines tend to burn you and knock you around, then leave you for dead when you actually are not. The low voltage lines you call primary lines are the ones that will snuff you out. Electricity behaves differently in high voltage (230-800KV). I once watched a fellow try and kill himself on a 300+KV tower. He climbed up there with a household extension cord, out onto an arm, and then whipped the extension cord down onto one of the lines. There was a pop and a flash, and he went sailing off the arm to the ground. Except for a lot of broken bones from the fall, he had no damage from what he had hoped would happen.
Got to remember, it is not the voltage that kills you, it is the amperage. Think of electricity as a water pipe. Water being the amps, and water pressure being the voltage. The volts are the force, the amps are the killer. Higher the voltage the more the amps can overcome insulating factors. That is why you can grab a spark plug, pull the starter rope and get a good buzz. 12,000 volts right up your arm but no damage because the amperage is next to nothing. On the other hand, 120 volts and as little as a 1/2 amp could easily kill you. Service drops and household wiring are generally insulated to protect you from up to 600 volts.
Rule of thumb for primary lines:
1 insulator = 7.2 (7.5) KV
2 insulators = 14.4-23 KV
3 insulators = 34.5 KV
4 insulators = 46 KV
5-6 insulators = 69 KV
You are not likely to be anywhere around more than three insulator lines while working, but there are 24 insulators when you get to the 500KV lines.
 
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Shadowscape, well reasoned and written. In my other life I'm an EE. :)

If you want scare tactics, get millwrights together with 600V cabinets. "It's not safe. I could climb over your body and get to the insides of the cabinet." - me taking current readings

On the missing neutral, good old mother earth ground conductivity sucks pretty bad in comparison :)
 
Shadowscape, well reasoned and written. In my other life I'm an EE. :)

If you want scare tactics, get millwrights together with 600V cabinets. "It's not safe. I could climb over your body and get to the insides of the cabinet." - me taking current readings

On the missing neutral, good old mother earth ground conductivity sucks pretty bad in comparison :)
Millwrights.... Even the word makes me shutter. Had one cut off my lock (Lockout / Tagout) on a bucket because he wanted to get to work. I even went so far as to write on the tag, under no circumstances is this lock to be removed except by (my name).
For you non electrical engineers out there, a bucket is a panel that slides onto buss bars that houses a motor starter and has a throw handle on the outside that can be locked in the off position so work can be done on the equipment without getting electrocuted or the equipment being started.
I was fortunate and didn't get hurt. He was fortunate that I didn't break his face.
 
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@Shadowscape, thanks again for all the good info. I understand that a Dyneema throwline draped over powerlines is not likely to be dangerous, but it's not guaranteed either, and the stakes are pretty high. I want to be able to remove the throwbag, or at least untie the back end from the cube, so I can pull the throwline off the wires using a fiberglass pole, if needed. I don't want to touch the throwline to find out if it's live or not. I want a safe way to determine that, and that's why I was thinking of a multimeter. If there is any current in the throwline at all, I figure it won't be so much that it will blow up the multimeter, and, even if it does, I would rather blow up the meter than me. Is there anything that can be done to test the throwline to determine if it is safe to touch?
 
@misfit
If you are serious about this, go to Amazon, or Home Depot, or any such place and buy a non-contact voltmeter. You can get one for about 20 dollars. Will detect around 12 -1000 volts.
Just keep in the back of your mind, volts don't kill you. Amperage kills you.
Your Dyneema is going to be perfectly safe.
 
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