MAD for residential service drops

Shadowscape said:
You can blather all you want. I'm done with this thread.
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Dude,

I was literally agreeing with you when I made that comment today about why they teach it the way they do instead of doing what you suggested. That maybe they were worried about liability or something. I was thinking out loud…

If you interpret that and my comment about the lift as me being a cowboy climber with no regard to the rules, then I don’t know what else to tell you. Come and work with me and see for yourself.
 
Isn’t it true that osha doesn’t permit arborists to ride a crane ball? I know certain companies and or areas won’t allow it.

If that’s the case, we shouldn’t do that either.

Just a thought…
 
Personally in most cases like this, I can't stand absolute prohibitions using "Safety" as an excuse. In cases of a rotten tree for example, the crane ball is the closest thing to an "engineered" tie point you can get. Way safer than hangin on tied into a tree that something has been munching on for who knows how long (of course you're never riding the crane ball while it's carrying a load, right?).
In these cases, I'd be prone to use a paper form with your company logo to document a "tree risk assessment" in case the inspector did ever show up (unlikely) and in my mind properly claim that there was no other way to deal with the tree that was "reasonably practicable" (throw their words back at them a bit). At the least you could fall on the mercy of the court and provided you have the paper and didn't do other things willy nilly on site, His(Her) Honor would probably lean your way in the end (have known some judges in my time). If it's an absolute ban on this in your jurisdiction and an automatic "ticket" type fine, I'd probably just pay it with a clear mind and go from there. But that's just me. But ya 'gotta' have the paper and to prove you have "considered" the matter.

Addenda: I should add that after 35 years or so in government and industry, many large firms with "edict" type safety programs really have no better safety performance than smaller firms that are practical and use their heads doing their work. Just my two cents tho.
 
On a practical note, if the lift is uninsulated i.e. conducting to earth, if you are standing on a metal (in ground circuit) deck or have similar situation handrails, the lift is helping conduct a fault current to ground if you eff up. On an insulated lift, if you eff up to contact a single conductor, you and the lift will energize for sanity's sake we'll only consider to 240V and no muscle clamping or heart stopping current will flow. Except maybe a small capacitive "phantom" current. I believe that is the nature of the protection offered by an insulated lift. Any higher voltage is folly!!!! and the realm of trained professionals. That said, a cable cut will still arc weld itself done from an insulated lift. So it's not all-protective. But it helps.

The other youtube scenario on an uninsulated lift is the lift contacting a hot lead. Could pop something even if you don't get zapped. Without being a pro, a lift near wires is shaking the dice on youtube content IMO. Don't do it IMO.
 
Hello there, new to the forums and this thread caught my attention. One time I was working around a service drop right near the weatherhead on the roof and nudged it out of the way with a jameson pole saw as I've done literally hundreds of times. All of a sudden I saw a flash and heard a bang. I don't feel like I got shocked, or at least not badly, and there was no electrical damage to the house I was working at. Scared the heck out of me. Clearly I made contact with the conductor and then it just shorted? Why was I not injured? Is it because the fiberglass polesaw serves as insulation? Sorry for the ignorance, I swear I'm a far better arborist than electrician haha.
 
lacrossewiarborist said:
Hello there, new to the forums and this thread caught my attention. One time I was working around a service drop right near the weatherhead on the roof and nudged it out of the way with a jameson pole saw as I've done literally hundreds of times. All of a sudden I saw a flash and heard a bang. I don't feel like I got shocked, or at least not badly, and there was no electrical damage to the house I was working at. Scared the heck out of me. Clearly I made contact with the conductor and then it just shorted? Why was I not injured? Is it because the fiberglass polesaw serves as insulation? Sorry for the ignorance, I swear I'm a far better arborist than electrician haha.
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You actually didn't make the bang and sparking. Let me back up. You did, but your pole contact had no part in it other than you moved the wires around.
The insulation on service drops gets brittle over the years and cracks. Sometimes pieces even fall off. That leaves a bare spot on a hot wire. By wiggling them with your pole a bare spot touched the neutral which isn't insulated, or, another bare spot on the other hot. That is what caused the flash bang. Shouldn't have hurt you one bit. Maybe scared you and made you jump, but no zapping you.
Had it continued to remain in contact with the neutral or other hot then you get arcing that can set things close to it a fire, such as trees or building. But it sounds like it was just a momentary bump. No biggie.
The pole is plenty insulated for the 120/240 service drops. Plus, you were probably far from being a ground source.
Remember, insulation from 120/240 doesn't take much. Think of your lamp cord. 1/16" or less of Chinese plastic is insulating you from the same voltage.
Just to let you know also, Jameson tests each section of their fiber glass poles at 100,000 volts. They won't release what data they get, but if they are doing that,
I'm sure you would not feel a thing up to at least 20KV with a section. Not telling you to go around poking wires with your pole, just assuring you that you did not get zapped by 120 volts.
 
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Shadowscape said:
You actually didn't make the bang and sparking. Let me back up. You did, but your pole contact had no part in it other than you moved the wires around.
The insulation on service drops gets brittle over the years and cracks. Sometimes pieces even fall off. That leaves a bare spot on a hot wire. By wiggling them with your pole a bare spot touched the neutral which isn't insulated, or, another bare spot on the other hot. That is what caused the flash bang. Shouldn't have hurt you one bit. Maybe scared you and made you jump, but no zapping you.
Had it continued to remain in contact with the neutral or other hot then you get arcing that can set things close to it a fire, such as trees or building. But it sounds like it was just a momentary bump. No biggie.
The pole is plenty insulated for the 120/240 service drops. Plus, you were probably far from being a ground source.
Remember, insulation from 120/240 doesn't take much. Think of your lamp cord. 1/16" or less of Chinese plastic is insulating you from the same voltage.
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Gotcha, thanks for the info.
 
Your saw, or metal end could contact a hot and neutral when you push on the wires, but then you would find a melted piece of saw or metal on your pole. Still would be safe however.
 
I think I've mentioned this before, but once I was using a chainsaw to cut brush that had overgrown a house (like... the two story house was half buried) and hit a live extension cord that was hidden in the brush. It made a loud pop/bang noise, some sparks, and the saw died immediately.

I didn't get shocked, and the saw fired right back up, but it was quite the surprise. Results:

0 saw cord cut.jpg
 
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