lower pricing due to the economy

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I know this one guy who does a few cash jobs now and then to help out in these bad times.

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I know I'm loosing a lot of jobs to guys like that...

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Not to this guy. He is only doing it with longtime, close established clients. The type of clients whom are very loyal, and would not even THINK of using another arborist. He never sells work using this method, but if a longtime client offers cash for discount, he will bend.

I bet your loosing jobs to the guy with the pick up and chainsaw who has no credentials. In that case, you do not want the jobs he is landing. The homeowner is going for price alone, not quality.

I am pretty convinced most homeowners do not understand proper, correct tree work. If you take the time to educate each and every prospect, I bet your chances of weeding out the hack grows better. Most people only seem to recognize a fine cleanup job. That's OK though, I always tell people that you should not really even be able to tell the tree was pruned all that much.. usually a sign of very good work.
 
I think I'll try that,

My "ME CUT TREE DOWN", sales stategy is probably do for an overhaul.
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most tree services i know of started with a pick up and a chain saw. for that matter my business is a pick up and a chain saw. i have insurance and credentials and was lucky enough to be taught by one of the best tree men/arborist in this part of the country, wes hopper. so not all your pick up trucks with chain saw types are all hacks. some of the worst hacks that i know of drive big chip trucks and own loaders and bobcats. they lion tail prunes and run through every job with no since of craftsmanship, except when it comes to removals. then they rut up yards with big equipment. so being big doesn't make you a craftsman. and with that i'm going to start a new thread "are you fast or are you a craftsman?"
 
No offense, but most of the guys around my area that are "jakelegs" do operate out of pickup trucks with a chainsaw...just the norm in my area, but not necessarily the case, perhaps, in other parts of the country. Probably the reason being is that the legitimate outfits around here do have bucket trucks, loader trucks, etc., which require CDL's to drive. You are also required to have state licensure to facilitate tree work...licensing board requires proof of G.Liability insurance of at least $1,000,000.00..."jakelegs" around here have no insurance and no state arborist's license.

Size of company doesn't mean anything as far as quality of work...however, size around here dictates proper licensure and insurance requirements. I get calls all the time of "jakeleg" customers mad and upset because job was never completed, cleaned up, etc. and they had already paid the "jakeleg" and never saw him again. They want me to then come out and clean the "jakeleg's" screw-ups, etc. Nine times out of ten this is a sign of a "deadbeat/non-paying customer" because of look who they called in the first place...the "jakeleg!" Clearly, this is someone who is not interested in quality and proper licensure/insurance...but rather, just a cheap price. You get what you pay for!

As far as Bobcats/skidsteers go, I have (2) of them, but do NOT use them in backyards for removal of tree debris. My company uses New Holland tractors with grapplers on the front to remove debris. We move the debris to the street and then my loader truck picks it up. Skidsteers are way too rough and tear up yards/grass too much. Tractor can pick up way more debris per grab and is driven more slowly, will just smash the grass down a bit, which then pops back up. Skidsteers marr the yard all up, so I don't use them.
 
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most tree services i know of started with a pick up and a chain saw. for that matter my business is a pick up and a chain saw. i have insurance and credentials and was lucky enough to be taught by one of the best tree men/arborist in this part of the country, wes hopper. so not all your pick up trucks with chain saw types are all hacks. some of the worst hacks that i know of drive big chip trucks and own loaders and bobcats. they lion tail prunes and run through every job with no since of craftsmanship, except when it comes to removals. then they rut up yards with big equipment. so being big doesn't make you a craftsman. and with that i'm going to start a new thread "are you fast or are you a craftsman?"

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Hey, I was not pointing this at folks like you, you have insurance, etc... don't get offended. You missed the part where I said "no credentials".

I started with a pick up as well, and, I also carried all the required insurance/licenses, along with some others.

I just find the guys out here, the routine hacks, are the clowns without insurance/licenese/skill, so all they can afford to do is run around in a beat up old pick up with chainsaws.

Does size matter? My guess is yes. I would argue that the smaller companies, for the most part, can offer a better product on a consistent basis in comparison to the larger outfits. Quality is easier to control in smaller numbers.
 
We have a large company and have an A+ rating with our local Better Business Bureau. MTC, Inc., sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree with you...size of the company doesn't matter...the dedication of the business owner, to provide top-notch workmanship and having employees that take pride in what they do, determine the consistent nature of the quality of the tree service's workmanship. I am blessed to have these type of employees and never take them for granted. Around my area, often, the smaller companies don't have all of the equipment necessary to facilitate certain projects anyways...more than often, they end up having to "pass the buck" off to another larger tree service. But, look...that's the nature of the beast...at some point, we all started out small and had to work our butts off to get to where we are...it doesn't happen overnight! I try as much as possible to help out the smaller guys around here.
 
I agree with holytree. We are a small outfit that is tooled up and do great work consistantly. Some times we may have to go back and touchup something, but the point is we are all about service. I started with a pickup and then got a trailor but always tried to learn and always did good work.

On another note holytree I dont agree with you on the skid steer. We own a small skid steer with smooth tracks and it rocks. we dont rut yards at all. You have to learn how to turn the machine on turf. For the most part when we leave a job our clients are very impressed.

MTCinc you must work alone or something......no disrespect but you come across like your really something....maybe try some humble pie....sometimes the jackleg just needs some direction. Some are truly trying to do things but still dont have a clue. If someone is open to learning then you should be open to teach instead of sterotyping. I thought you of all people would have this frame of mind...just a thought. Sorry in advance if I crossed the line. Again, forgive me.
 
Quality people make for quality work. If it were possible to hire good people then multiple crews are easy and the quality of work stays high, unfortunately finding good people is a pain. I can't stand going back and fixing something that someone that's supposed to know has fouled up. That's why we're small.
 
FOR THE RECORD...I AGAIN send a formal apology to all for my stupid comments that come out wrong....I truly am sorry MTCINC for the offense....yall be safe....
 
Hey Shovelhead...glad that skidsteer works out for you, buddy. Sounds like either you operate it yourself or have an employee that doesn't want to "play" on the skidsteer...LOL! Maybe it's these Louisiana guys down here (go figure), but they think a Bobcat is a toy and want to drive it like a 4-wheeler at the deer camp. No, skidsteers just aren't my company's thing...I like the little TC-35 tractors from New Holland with front end grapplers to haul debris out of a yard. I can pick up more at a time and don't have to worrry about my tractor operators operating them like it's a demolition derby...LOL! On certain jobs, I might use a skidsteer, but not that often. People around here are funny...a lot of them don't want a skidsteer in their yard. Have some clients that don't want any kind of equipment in their yards, especially if they are well-manicured yards. They want you to log dolly or handtote debris out of their yard...of course, they have to pay considerably more for that service because of the labor hours involved. Just had a bad storm here last night...calls galore this morning, with (3) trees on different houses...it's crane time! Guys are on a job as we speak...got to get back to the grind...ya'll be safe out there!
 
yes , my guys do good on the skid steer except now and then a few screw upa. Like last week we HAD a guy who turned it while holding a log and tore my door off my 02 int. chip truck!...always something...constant babysitting...getting sick of it. No body takes care of it like the owner does...no matter how much you pay them. be safe!
 
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yes , my guys do good on the skid steer except now and then a few screw upa. Like last week we HAD a guy who turned it while holding a log and tore my door off my 02 int. chip truck!...always something...constant babysitting...getting sick of it. No body takes care of it like the owner does...no matter how much you pay them. be safe!

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Why was the door open? I FREAK! if even the T handles on the bin doors are turned up. All it takes is 1 piece to bounce wrong a hit one. Nevermind the door being open. What if a kid walks by, hits his head on the corner of the door and there was no cones or caution out? You're getting sued.

CLOSE the doors after you get what you need!!!!!






OK I feel better now.
 
Unfortunately, accidents can and will happen in this business...no matter how cautious or OSHA-conscious you are! That's why we pay the kind of worker's comp premiums we do...been in business a long time and with a clean record, yet here in LA, still paying 38%. Sorry about your chipper truck, Shovelhead...been there and done that with the "babysitting." Took years before I could find the type of men I've got now...dealt with the ones that didn't want to show up for work everyday or just wanted to show up on Monday (broke from the weekend) or Friday (payday). Dealt with the ones that had warrants out for their arrest...dealt with the ones that had the substance abuse issues. BELIEVE ME...I could tell you some stories! Hang in there...I've had those same kind of weeks like you! (2) weeks ago, had a transmission go out on one of my bucket trucks, so I feel you, buddy!
 
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Unfortunately, accidents can and will happen in this business...no matter how cautious or OSHA-conscious you are! That's why we pay the kind of worker's comp premiums we do...been in business a long time and with a clean record, yet here in LA, still paying 38%. Sorry about your chipper truck, Shovelhead...been there and done that with the "babysitting." Took years before I could find the type of men I've got now...dealt with the ones that didn't want to show up for work everyday or just wanted to show up on Monday (broke from the weekend) or Friday (payday). Dealt with the ones that had warrants out for their arrest...dealt with the ones that had the substance abuse issues. BELIEVE ME...I could tell you some stories! Hang in there...I've had those same kind of weeks like you! (2) weeks ago, had a transmission go out on one of my bucket trucks, so I feel you, buddy!

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Love that avatar pic you got holytree!
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