Knuckle boom

limbcontrol said:
We run an Effer 655 6+6+2HD without a grapple saw. I couldnt agree more with everything treecareinc wrote above. The grapple saw would slow us down. We are a high production company and taking baby bites from a tree with a limited capacity manual extension is not my idea of increasing effeciency. If you dont have a skilled climber who can balance large picks weighing in 80%+ capacity of that kboom you just spent a boatload of money then you aren't seeing the full benefits of what that crane can do.

If you don't want to employ a skilled climber or just rather not have the risk of having a climber in a tree I see the benefit of being the old guy in a lawn chair removing trees, and yes I'm getting old so it doesn't sound like a bad idea, until then what's a few more grey hairs.
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The standard is 70% of rated capacity. This old guy sitting in the yard is hired because I can produce and complete the same size jobs with a small crew. When I show up I generally have 2 ground personnel and myself. They see the benefit in production with a lower payroll cost or its a small company who couldn't effectively manage a large pic. It's all about the goals and the LZ vs the pic size. I am rarely called in to do a tree you could blow out with 4 huge crane pics. It's the versatility of the set up, obstacles moving the pic and a small lz with hazards. There is absolutely no argument in the volume of material taken with the saw vs the balanced pick without the saw. I 100% subcontract. They don't hire me for the crane. They hire me for the saw. Hazardous trees, small lz, hazards, reduced ground personnel, zero collateral damage from traditional rigging methods. Reduction of fatigue to the overworked small crew. It has it's place and I make a comfortable living subbing out the grapple saw. I'm working 2 hours away for the next 2 days and they gladly pay the travel. They are a skilled company at any aspect of tree work including managing large balanced crane picks. There must be a reason they are bringing the saw in. The are certainly equipped to do the tree otherwise. Don't sell the saw short. It's a great tool and it can certainly hold it's own in a production setting. It's a tool like any other. It has its place and depends on the market. I have tapped into a niche market. I'm not trying to do every tree they want a crane on, just the ones they feel the saw would be a benefit. In my market I work for 23 companies. I'll be working for my 24th new customer tuesday. Funny thing is they all keep calling me back. The fun thing is, if you just wanna use the saw and keep a climber out of the tree then bid it accordingly and you don't loose a penny of profit by piecing the tree out with the saw rather than taking 5 massive picks. Just depends on how many jobs you want to do in a day. I also have 20 years of climbing experience with a good amount of crane experience under my belt. I measure every job by how it would be more efficient for the customer. The customer being the primary contractor. If I think it could have been done more efficiently another way then I tell them. But again, sometimes they just want to use the saw and put the rest of the crew on another job increasing profits for the day. All a matter of prospective I guess. I just wouldn't scrap the idea of the saw. If I had a 6 man crew who was good at their job I'd also own a stick boom. But again I only sub out. Small companies love it. I do understand we are talking apples and oranges because i'm a sub and you are the primary contractor so I'm not disagreeing with you totally. I don't know how you guys roll but this is my opinion from my experience.
 
As a general rule I brush the tree out with the saw then sling logs. Plenty of balanced pics also but they want mill logs so that’s the general expectation. Nobody wants the tree to the ground in 5’ sections in my market. 94639564-88ED-4777-9D2C-01121AC373D8.webp80C60424-E9E9-4719-B5A2-51843EC81A90.webp8CF4C6F7-4594-4D88-9D86-8D49CE946639.webp
 
So this job for example. Coulda crushed it with balanced picks or a 33t stick. It would have been awful to climb and rig and a stick couldn’t set up plus no lz so the brought me in because even with the reduced pick sizes it was still the most efficient way to work the job. If you’re spending $400k on a build what’s another $25k for a saw Head you can choose to use when you feel it most efficient? No brainer to me
 
Buying a 16” saw head and a 25”. I see the use for it. My truck also comes with a winch just like a stick crane has. Furthermore with over 120’ of reach straight to the side. No 40 ton stick crane can compare. I can take it huge up close just like a crane and save time by winching down instead of lowering my entire boom and risking overweight issues compared to my boom angle. Mine has a basket attachment as well. This is the future. I am convinced. I have made my decision and will finalize my purchase this week.
 
I have big crews and small crews. I have the best of all worlds. I can take it big when I want and have the resources there, or peice it out when the LZ or distance calls for it, and keep the crew light. I will be my own sub. I will bounce around from crew to crew as needed and use the truck where needed. Also because my crews have awesome climbers and aerial equipment, I can even trim with it, and they can make the collar cuts. I may do some subbing but get the feeling I will need the truck most of the time myself.

Thanks for the input guys!
 
limbcontrol said:
We run an Effer 655 6+6+2HD without a grapple saw. I couldnt agree more with everything treecareinc wrote above. The grapple saw would slow us down. We are a high production company and taking baby bites from a tree with a limited capacity manual extension is not my idea of increasing effeciency. If you dont have a skilled climber who can balance large picks weighing in 80%+ capacity of that kboom you just spent a boatload of money then you aren't seeing the full benefits of what that crane can do.

If you don't want to employ a skilled climber or just rather not have the risk of having a climber in a tree I see the benefit of being the old guy in a lawn chair removing trees, and yes I'm getting old so it doesn't sound like a bad idea, until then what's a few more grey hairs.
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Ok i said this earlier but it must have been overlooked by many... Often i work with a buddy of mine which runs his lift or elevator bucket together with my effer k-boom. We have done many monster trees just the 2 of us. The only time we bring out the slings is when we get to the big chunk wood. We utilize the Mecanil just to grab the limbs and let the CLIMBER MAKE THE CUTS. this allows us to make well balanced picks which could be similar in size like if we were just using the hook. The pieces we bring down are much larger than what would be made by just allowing the grapple saw to make the cut on its own. The time saved by not having to tie/untie each piece is amazing, Did i mention i can rotate and place the cut piece on the ground where i want without needing guys to guide it into the landing zone. Come on guys cut me some slack.. @deevo runs a stick and probably makes a killing doing it with just a hook. Well looks like he's adding something to his Arsenal i wonder why...
 
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islandedge said:
Ok i said this earlier but it must have been overlooked by many... Often i work with a buddy of mine which runs his lift or elevator bucket together with my effer k-boom. We have done many monster trees just the 2 of us. The only time we bring out the slings is when we get to the big chunk wood. We utilize the Mecanil just to grab the limbs and let the CLIMBER MAKE THE CUTS. this allows us to make well balanced picks which could be similar in size like if we were just using the hook. The pieces we bring down are much larger than what would be made by just allowing the grapple saw to make the cut on its own. The time saved by not having to tie/untie each piece is amazing, Did i mention i can rotate and place the cut piece on the ground where i want without needing guys to guide it into the landing zone. Come on guys cut me some slack.. @deevo runs a stick and probably makes a killing doing it with just a hook. Well looks like he's adding something to his Arsenal..
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Are you running a mecanil on your effer?
 
And as far as the pull out i keep it push in or just slightly out if I'm doing cut with a climber. (Keep in mind my booms smaller than a 655)
 
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islandedge said:
Ok i said this earlier but it must have been overlooked by many... Often i work with a buddy of mine which runs his lift or elevator bucket together with my effer k-boom. We have done many monster trees just the 2 of us. The only time we bring out the slings is when we get to the big chunk wood. We utilize the Mecanil just to grab the limbs and let the CLIMBER MAKE THE CUTS. this allows us to make well balanced picks which could be similar in size like if we were just using the hook. The pieces we bring down are much larger than what would be made by just allowing the grapple saw to make the cut on its own. The time saved by not having to tie/untie each piece is amazing, Did i mention i can rotate and place the cut piece on the ground where i want without needing guys to guide it into the landing zone. Come on guys cut me some slack.. @deevo runs a stick and probably makes a killing doing it with just a hook. Well looks like he's adding something to his Arsenal i wonder why...
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With one caveat. Your picks won't be as big as with slings because you have 600-800 lbs of weight tied up in the grapple weight.

Though by just grabbing (instead of setting slings) you can almost do 2 picks to one.
 
Steve Connally said:
So this job for example. Coulda crushed it with balanced picks or a 33t stick. It would have been awful to climb and rig and a stick couldn’t set up plus no lz so the brought me in because even with the reduced pick sizes it was still the most efficient way to work the job. If you’re spending $400k on a build what’s another $25k for a saw Head you can choose to use when you feel it most efficient? No brainer to me
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Because that same tree would be done and on to the next job with taking big picks. At the end of the day we would accomplish more work. Yes the payroll is a few guys higher but I'm still profiting much more. A grapple saw would slow our roll, we bring our crane in to blow out jobs.



That's cool you don't have employees, but somebody is gotta process that brush/logs. We average between $500-$700 an HR with our crane crew. At $175 an HR for a crane? No wonder they love subbing you!
 
Mek is the way of the future. I have a couple hundred stick crane days under my belt and own a mek. If I could only own 1 it would be a k boom as the versatility is awesome. I’m either thinking of keeping the 33002 as it’s awesome and goes anywhere and buying a stick or a bigger k boom we will see as the season progresses maybe sooner as I will be at Palfleet on Tuesday. I use it for everything removals, trimming, moving logs, grapple head and hook. I currently run the 220 and am picking up the 160 and a manbasket to further increase versatility.
 
@CanaryBoss I would like to get involved in storm work, noticed you had mentioned something about it in an earlier post. So figured I inquire.I have a crane experienced guys and some nice equipment. Let me know
 
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