Knuckle boom

tnttree said:
first seen the Gierkink (like a Mec) in Germany 4 years ago now. freaked me out wanted to start a new tree company again. Over there at least the job I witnessed the Arb was only getting 50 euros for a 24" tree - I think this invention destroyed the boulevard contract tree market in Europe.

I decided I am to old to start another tree company. I believe the first adopters will make the money - eventually "MEC" trees will drive the market down
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I hope not, we pay so much to have/operate one of these
 
islandedge said:
I hope not, we pay so much to have/operate one of these
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Yes, I think that the cost of the treemek will help keep the prices higher... Can't afford to operate one of these without making a good deal of money... I should know, I think I'm at the bottom end of what someone can make and afford to run one of these...
 
I’m on my third kboom now. Effer 655 6S6S. The guys that really helped me were allmark Mark Moeske and Mike Poor. In my opinion you shouldn’t buy one of these units without talking to those guys.

The Kboom is a nice tool and we really like it. It doesn’t replace a grapple truck. It works best in tandem with a grapple truck. If you told me I had to get rid of one... Kboom goes first.

We make more money with our spider lifts teamed with grapple trucks. Kbooms are not a profit center for us.

Kboom isn’t a Swiss Army knife. It’s a great tool... I think it is a better tool for an owner operator that wants to focus solely on removals. We make a lot more profit doing things other than removals.
 
Interesting observation. I was thinking of running my truck in tandem with already established crews. I would basically have the truck show up, play it’s part, then leave the rest to the crew to clean and finish. That way they can collar cut if we are trimming or do the detail work that the mecanil is not great for. Also, it would only require one guy to run cause the truck would be supported by the crew it is working with.
 
treecareinc said:
I’m on my third kboom now. Effer 655 6S6S. The guys that really helped me were allmark Mark Moeske and Mike Poor. In my opinion you shouldn’t buy one of these units without talking to those guys.

The Kboom is a nice tool and we really like it. It doesn’t replace a grapple truck. It works best in tandem with a grapple truck. If you told me I had to get rid of one... Kboom goes first.

We make more money with our spider lifts teamed with grapple trucks. Kbooms are not a profit center for us.

Kboom isn’t a Swiss Army knife. It’s a great tool... I think it is a better tool for an owner operator that wants to focus solely on removals. We make a lot more profit doing things other than removals.
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Do you run a grapplesaw with it?
 
treecareinc said:
I’m on my third kboom now. Effer 655 6S6S. The guys that really helped me were allmark Mark Moeske and Mike Poor. In my opinion you shouldn’t buy one of these units without talking to those guys.

The Kboom is a nice tool and we really like it. It doesn’t replace a grapple truck. It works best in tandem with a grapple truck. If you told me I had to get rid of one... Kboom goes first.

We make more money with our spider lifts teamed with grapple trucks. Kbooms are not a profit center for us.

Kboom isn’t a Swiss Army knife. It’s a great tool... I think it is a better tool for an owner operator that wants to focus solely on removals. We make a lot more profit doing things other than removals.
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Eric is right about the grapple truck, you'll be greatly disappointed when you realize a knuckle boom is not as fast as a log loader not to mention more fragile with hoses and such being exposed. However for me it would be the last piece of equipment that I would sell. Eric has an awesome set up for storm work and such and don't even chip like the rest of us on his jobs. Everybody does stuff different. I bought the knuckle boom first and ran it with a hook and slings like some of the guys Eric mentioned, then I decided on the grapple saw and the rest was history.
 
We are not in love with the grapple saw. I have been to Europe multiple times. Been to the Effer and Gierkink factory. We have proficient climbers/riggers and the grapple saw is slow for our taste. Our Kboom is Plumbed for it, but a proficient climber with proficient rigging can dismantle most of our jobs much faster than the grapple saw. Most long term Kboom operators would give you the same answer. Every now and then the grapple saw is nice, but not every tree, every cut.

I also have concern about the long term effects of grapple saw use on a Kboom. The manufacturers aren’t fans and side loading / shock loading that is hard to avoid. Seen some boom failures with constant grapple saw use.

In an owner operator situation I can understand the grapple saw. We are large scale production and it doesn’t meet our needs.

We compete against 3 tree Meks in our market. We have not lost a bid to a treee mek that I am aware of. Bottom line is it doesn’t matter how fast you take the tree down, debris removal is the biggest slow down. Grapple trucks move debris faster. For us that’s the key.

Different strokes for different folks....
 
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I would love to be going the grapple route but it's insane the price to dump brush/wood. Chips are free. I'm a real small operation but this is what i have found to work for me and 90% of the time i am faster than the competition. I run the Treemek with a 30 yard chip truck with a older bandit 1890, and 30 yard log truck. Loaders? just a couple mini's with the bmg that feed the chipper. A 20" chipper gets rid of the brush pretty fast. Once i get to the big wood i back the log truck right up and drop them in, no double handling.
 
islandedge said:
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I would love to be going the grapple route but it's insane the price to dump brush/wood. Chips are free. I'm a real small operation but this is what i have found to work for me and 90% of the time i am faster than the competition. I run the Treemek with a 30 yard chip truck with a older bandit 1890, and 30 yard log truck. Loaders? just a couple mini's with the bmg that feed the chipper. A 20" chipper gets rid of the brush pretty fast. Once i get to the big wood i back the log truck right up and drop them in, no double handling.
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Wanna make a trade? I’m interested in that truck you have.
 

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treecareinc said:
We are not in love with the grapple saw. I have been to Europe multiple times. Been to the Effer and Gierkink factory. We have proficient climbers/riggers and the grapple saw is slow for our taste. Our Kboom is Plumbed for it, but a proficient climber with proficient rigging can dismantle most of our jobs much faster than the grapple saw. Most long term Kboom operators would give you the same answer. Every now and then the grapple saw is nice, but not every tree, every cut.

I also have concern about the long term effects of grapple saw use on a Kboom. The manufacturers aren’t fans and side loading / shock loading that is hard to avoid. Seen some boom failures with constant grapple saw use.

In an owner operator situation I can understand the grapple saw. We are large scale production and it doesn’t meet our needs.

We compete against 3 tree Meks in our market. We have not lost a bid to a treee mek that I am aware of. Bottom line is it doesn’t matter how fast you take the tree down, debris removal is the biggest slow down. Grapple trucks move debris faster. For us that’s the key.

Different strokes for different folks....
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Now we are talking. Thanks for the info. Truth is, I’m approved for the financing and have the money down. I’m meeting with my financial advisor today and will be deciding over the next couple of days what I’m going to do. The truck is already built. A PM 100. It’s on a western star tandem tandem. I also have very proficient awesome climbers. I have decided to keep at least one of my loaders. I’ll probably sell my sterling. I used to need two. I previously did no chipping but have recently purchased three chippers and chip trucks. I convinced myself for some time that I needed a backup loader but the truth is that my mechanics are soo good that I rarely have a issue that cant be quickly resolved. I really appreciate all the time guys have put into helping me decide the route to take.
 
CanaryBoss said:
Now we are talking. Thanks for the info. Truth is, I’m approved for the financing and have the money down. I’m meeting with my financial advisor today and will be deciding over the next couple of days what I’m going to do. The truck is already built. A PM 100. It’s on a western star tandem tandem. I also have very proficient awesome climbers. I have decided to keep at least one of my loaders. I’ll probably sell my sterling. I used to need two. I previously did no chipping but have recently purchased three chippers and chip trucks. I convinced myself for some time that I needed a backup loader but the truth is that my mechanics are soo good that I rarely have a issue that cant be quickly resolved. I really appreciate all the time guys have put into helping me decide the route to take.
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I would suggest checking out Chad's knuckleboom in person and talk with him (someone that actually works around the same types of trees as you and actually runs it, and has a stick boom to compare)
 
I have spoken with him. Unfortunately we have not Been able to coordinate our schedules I’ve been wanting to go and take a look at his truck in action in person. And talking with him it sounds like he doesn’t run his a whole lot
 
I sort of agree with the above statements. What I will say is i've subbed on jobs where a stick would have been faster but they didn't have the manpower, climber would have been faster but the brush drag on the guys would have been brutal. I only sub out to other companies so generally there is a reason they brought me in. If they could have bombed, dropped or otherwise done the tree more efficiently they would have. Took down a pine in a sea of understory yesterday. They could have speed lined some of it, dropped some of it, and a few other options. Why the the chance? Just bring in the grapple saw. I wouldn't let the above statements discourage you from the grapple. I work for 23 different companies. They all bring me in for the grapple. A large percentage are small crew companies. They others see the efficiency to have me just put it on the ground. It's not the silver bullet but it shines where it shines. I have no regrets and if you have an 8 crew company then maybe a stick is better for you.
 
Thanks for chiming in Steve. I’ve read your whole build thread and it inspired me to look into it further. We used your website video in a meeting recently while discussing the potential of buying this truck. Glad to hear your input.
 
We run an Effer 655 6+6+2HD without a grapple saw. I couldnt agree more with everything treecareinc wrote above. The grapple saw would slow us down. We are a high production company and taking baby bites from a tree with a limited capacity manual extension is not my idea of increasing effeciency. If you dont have a skilled climber who can balance large picks weighing in 80%+ capacity of that kboom you just spent a boatload of money then you aren't seeing the full benefits of what that crane can do.

If you don't want to employ a skilled climber or just rather not have the risk of having a climber in a tree I see the benefit of being the old guy in a lawn chair removing trees, and yes I'm getting old so it doesn't sound like a bad idea, until then what's a few more grey hairs.
 

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