KNOT PRO CHOICE MOVEMENT

T

TrEECoWboY

Location
Atlanta, GA
Join the Knot Pro Choice Movement today, to combat any future legislation directed toward the control of climbing applications in use around the world today.

Keep your freedom in knot choice open!

ITS YOUR CLIMB!

KNOT PRO CHOICE!
KNOT PRO CHOICE!
KNOT PRO CHOICE!

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****currently, there are only rumors of legislation controlling the use of knots in the arboricultural industry, to date, none have been verified as true.****

This is a test of the Emergency Knotcasting System. This is only a test.
 
Has the whole world gone crazy and turned there self into a giant Asplundh?? They tryed to tell what knot I could and couldnt use once... just to find out the guy who said it had never climbed a day in his life......
 
There are so many variations of friction hitches that it seems unreasonable to deny use of one hitch or the other. Knut yes, Michoacan no, or whatever. Seems like requiring a minimum number of turns would be a more rational approach rather than the ISA trying to keep up with individual creativity and innovation.
 
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What are you talking about?

love
nick

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What Nick said.


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Seems like requiring a minimum number of turns would be a more rational approach rather than the ISA trying to keep up with individual creativity and innovation.

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Why mention the ISA?????


I THINK what has happened is that Laz2 wrote something to Treecowboy about a faction that is rumbling around in Europe that wants to ban friction hitches and replace them with mechanical devices.

This is just my perception from reading this and some other posts.

Treecowboy, please explain before more rumours get started.

Right now, to my knowledge, there is absolutely NO attempt by anyone to legislate control over climbing hitches in the United States and certainly not "...around the world..."


Treecowboy, please explain before more rumours get started.
 
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Right now, to my knowledge, there is absolutely NO attempt by anyone to legislate control over climbing hitches in the United States and certainly not "...around the world..."

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Ontario's doing a pretty good job. Not 'law' per say, but some heavy swingers made a study or'research' and published a list of 'failed' knots.

Many facets of this 'study' are arguably not in step with true scientific process.
 
Laz made a statement to me that friction hitches were "generally outlawed" in Europe. Then I received a few more comments from various sources.

It seems there is not a consensus on this issue. Some rumors, some fact. Some blown out of proportion.

If anything, it would be the ISA that would support innovation and friction hitch useage and back it up with empirical data from what I have read in past issues.

Its nice to hear first hand knowledge as to what is going on in different areas. Provides a good basis for further study.
 
Maybe in reference to competitions your statement about the ISA could be correct to a certain extent for safety reasons. There is an assumed liability in accepting all knots, rigging, and climbing systems carte blanc into a competition. There are certain methods to employ with each, or they are disqualified. If there is an innovation, the judges will review it prior to competing and either allow or deny the method. It is a great place to introduce something you have been using, to a technical audience for expert review. The literature that ISA publishes explores innovation also. I wouldn't pick on them. To me, they are the good guys, and there really aren't any "bad guys" I know of in the industry. I think everyone means well, but needs to keep an eye on climber creativity and comfort zone. If you grew up climbing with a certain knot, it's difficult to abandoned that bridge that took you into the present. Especially under a mandate from a non compromising company, faction, or lobbying organization.
 
My comments were reflecting general 'Work At Height' practice. Friction hitches are replced by mechanical devices on SINGLE ROPE. Friction hitches are used in rescue because they serve a certain practical purpose. but they are always backed up. Rescue staff have additional training and experience.

Tree work has higher risks with little or no back up. This requires more expertise to work competently and safely. This requires training over time. Tree work has poor levels of training and expertise to match the risks, IMHO.

IMHO, curently, prusiks are king in DdRT. But not industrial SRT.
 
Thanks for clarifying.



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IMHO, curently, prusiks are king in DdRT. But not industrial SRT.

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By "...prusiks..." did you mean ' <u>The</u> Prusik' or prusik knots aka friction hitches?
 
'Prusiks' as a generic term for 'Friction Hitches'.

EN 1891 Type A ropes are tested as knotted.

There are some rumours that some manufacturers of spliced/stitched products are trying to legislate for removal of knots. If thats true, its an obvious commercial ploy IMO.

I certainly wish to avoid the situation that Mangoes mentions.
 
I'd like some more mechanical things, mind you.

I've tied some poor imitations of real knots in my time, only to feel them creep when I'm 40ft up.

Combine that with my newly developed habit of clipping into the wrong part of bowline-with-yosemite-tie-off; I better get a will done soon, I reckon :S

So much for training...
 
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Right now, to my knowledge, there is absolutely NO attempt by anyone to legislate control over climbing hitches in the United States and certainly not "...around the world..."

[/ QUOTE ]

Ontario's doing a pretty good job. Not 'law' per say, but some heavy swingers made a study or'research' and published a list of 'failed' knots.

Many facets of this 'study' are arguably not in step with true scientific process.

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I think you posted that study didn't you? Had some errors, if I remember...



Is anyone pushing to make or change law(s) based on that study? Have any companies changed or made policy based on the study? Or was it just poor 'research' that had a lot of publicity?
 
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Combine that with my newly developed habit of clipping into the wrong part of bowline-with-yosemite-tie-off; I better get a will done soon, I reckon :S



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Yeah, I don't really like the bowline as a tie off, even with the yosemite. The cleanest end line knot IMO is the fisherman knot (it might be called something different, but is tied just like the double fisherman).

jp
grin.gif
 
Policies have changed drastically:
- most municipalities will not allow the use of those friction hitches that 'failed'
- educational institutions are not allowing those friction hitches that 'failed' to be part of curriculum
- if I as an employer stated that my employees and the company accept the "Arborist Safe Work Practices" then we would also be restricted (I feel that I am fortunate as an employer because I am willing to spend the energy to investigate and learn new systems I am confident I have the information to protect myself in the event of a MOL inspection)(many employers discourage current/up to date work practices because they would be inconvenienced by having to learn and understand these new systems, as any leader should)

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