ISA Code of Ethics/ CA with lowballer illegal op.

[ QUOTE ]
I think the dude was asking for trouble by posting on CL. Plus it doesn't seem to be working that well for him.

I back you a 100% on this Mario.

[/ QUOTE ]

You just reminded me of something I forgot to post in this thread.

Ties-in with Jerry's post too, about the person trying to get ahead and get through school.

Now ... I don't know what the fines are in Washington. That ad in Oregon would almost certainly have already been turned in the either the Construction Contractors Board or the Landscape Contractors Board.

I believe the fine is between $600 and $2000. Now if someone is trying to pay the bills and eek out an existence, why would they hang themselves in the potential face of an excruciating monetary penalty? Maybe Washington's is pocket change. It's a steep fine down this way.
 
Yup,

My guess is that Washington doesn't take their regulation all that serious. As long as they got a ton of guys like Sean Kroll to keep the revenue coming in who cares about those that are milking the system.
I thought the whole license and insurance thing was suppose to be good for the industry.

I don't do real well with sob stories that try to justify breaking the law.

I'd rather hear the guy say,
"you see our state regs suck and I'm not going to pay for something that doesn't work".

Shoot, he might get a hand shake from me with that one.
 
I think that the whole thing has brought out some interesting points.

I think that people on TB are more alike than different, ...or we at least have one mutual passion.

I see it from both sides.

GB- I do like your encouraging the part about working hard to be able to pay for an education in something (sustainable agriculture) worthwhile.

As well, I echo what Mario said about people barely getting by legitimately.



If I were to theoretically have to close up shop, then three people are out jobs, and that extends to hardship on many more. Is that a good thing?

Giving up the opportunity to work for school is a luxury. Giving up the opportunity to work enough not to have to rely on others/ food bank to eat,in these very dire times, is a luxury.

Sitting around looking for a handout, like some many, is crappy. There are so many "spare change-ers" around that its... I don't know what exactly. There is one guy around though that has a sign "Hungry for work. I can do ..." and lists many things he'll do for money. One guy in all of Olympia.

Funky Tree Hugger isn't spare changing. He's looking for work, which I applaud. I have to say though that specifying CA is really what opens the can of worms most.

Also,not being able to have Federal Financial Aid for college was a person choice that FTH made and has to live with. I signed up. Whether I would have made to a stand against fighting in an unethical war where profit reigned supreme, or not was untold. FTH knowingly gave up FFA by free choice without the draft breathing down his neck.



I think that it would be very interesting to see people post whether they are a legal business owner or an employee, or whatnot, along with their support on either (or both) sides of the issue. I think that this is a large factor.


Anyhow, what's really important is that we all try to advance tree work as a profession. Seems that currently the most prevalent way is through active professional organizations that have purpose, educate the public, support us, and trees.

Everybody stay safe, take care of yourselves and your fellow treeworkers.
 
Thanks for assuring me I wasn't under attack sean, and the invite for work opportunities, we shall see where this leads... although i don't like going on about my sob stories, I would like to clarify since it was brought up,that I was kicked out of high school for smoking pot and graduated through a technical college so i never really was informed I had to sign up for the draft to receive ffa and now it is too late for me to sign up for the rest of my life...

one thing I would like to bring up here is the lack of quality work for others who may be struggling... there are a lot of people who simply can't afford quality work. I ran a crew for a long time for a company that charged high prices and got lots of work because we did quality work, but we also lost a lot of bids because other companies would come in and underbid us and often time do a hackjob. what I have noticed about doing jobs off craigslist is the people that call me up can't afford a company that charges so much and will go with a cheap tree guy regardless. I am always upfront with my lack of insurance and when people can afford a real company, I would bid the job for the company I worked for. I am not trying to steal jobs from anyone or make it harder for other CAs in the area, the people that hire me are struggling. I almost see it as a moral obligation that someone should be out there offering quality work for these people and filling in the gaps that the modern tree care industry has yet to find solutions for.

I just sold a job ( the first one after being in olympia for three weeks) A nice old couple the man with a bad back and the lady struggling to pay the mortgage, they are trying to help their kids out with their mortgage too, they have a cottonwood hanging over their horse pasture that has been scaring them for a while but they never had the money to take it down, they were happy with the low price I gave them and I was happy when they agreed to replace the cut down cottonwood with an inexpensive cedar from weyerhaeuser.

I doubt there is a CA climber out there who hasn't done a side job now and then without having a proper license. I am not trying to get work coming out my ears, I have enough at school to keep me busy over 60 hours a week with homework and farm projects... I assure you that I am not a concern for your business, unless you can somehow convince banks to give people with huge mortgages more money or get the state to help people get quality tree work, which are both stupid ideas I know...
I support legal businesses and I always try and buy from the right sources, whether it be local organic produce or american made tools.
but what about the folks that can't afford organic food or american tools, should they be subjected to poison filled processed food and cheap Chinese crap or should there be another option to help these people get the good services they deserve??
 
Dude,

Stop this!
If you're that passionate about helping those in need then do it for free!

Come on man!
you need to eat so you need to work,
just leave it at that!

Try this one...

"Hey Mr. Cottonwood guy, you need some work done on your tree and I'm a guy that needs some money so I can eat and pay the bills".

"Can we make some kind of deal?"

You make it sound as if you're with some kind of non-profit organization.


End of story.
 
Wow, Jim. Ive never seen you so worked up. Maybe you should take a time out.
wink.gif
 
The kid is being used as a whipping post in this forum for all the bad that many older people have wantonly done, and you feel so just to point the finger at him to use as an example.

He's a young man on the learning path of a career and for all you know he could end up being the president of the ISA. Don't think so? He's young enough and has the time to do it.

These witch hunt threads are as old as time and the worst example of all mankind.

And not a good example at all of what Buzz forum is all about. Need I quote again the mission statement of what the Tree Buzz forum is about? It certainly isn't about ganging up on young people starting out.

Grown men ganging up on a school kid. Real tough guys.
 
Tell you what Jerry,
I'll call it like I see it. and I really don't care what you or others think of that.

I don't appreciate people beating around the bush to justify their actions,
It is what it is.

And nope, I aint budgin'
 
[ QUOTE ]
He's a young man on the learning path of a career and for all you know he could end up being the president of the ISA. Don't think so? He's young enough and has the time to do it.

...

Grown men ganging up on a school kid. Real tough guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jerry, he's a Certified Arborist. The ad implied a fair amount of time into this work already. "Kid" may not fit. The ad he posted on CL says "highly skilled". The ad he posted on CL says he ran "crews" plural. It seems to connote knowing the path.

Here's a fair question ...

If it's no big deal that he do this, and suppose if he works uninsured, and say next December racks up a $10,000 to $80,000 liability due to an accident, who should cover the bill? Any volunteers?

[ QUOTE ]


I doubt there is a CA climber out there who hasn't done a side job now and then without having a proper license.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my case, I can't name one down this way. Can't say none ever did. Just don't know of one.

For everyone else ...

To elaborate on the question earlier about who would cover a huge liability .....

Any of you read about the house in the Portland west hills that slid down in the last year or so?

House Destroyed in Portland West Hills Slide

And there had not been much rain? A soil engineer doing a presentation the other night, told us that a lawsuit seems to be aimed at 2 or 3 companies, because the water meters of 2 surrounding homes had skyrocketed beyond normal water consumption. Apparently, one tree service had worked at one home, and very possibly stump ground through a water line or dropped a chunk of wood that damaged a line or meter. Suppose it could simply have hit the meter case and damaged a fitting. Anyhow, someone is likely to get hit with damages for maybe a half million on this one.

There may be a thousand ways to have a small accident that causes enormous financial damage.

Woe to the tree workers had they been students and uninsured.

Now that would be a self-inflicted whipping post.
 
I thought scalping went away with the Indians?

I started off without insurance or any certifications. And I'll tell you... every side-job was nice for the money, but I was always scared shatless of causing damage. It didn't take me long to realize that the $1,000 spent on even a small policy was well worth the money.

I won't brow-beat you for doing the same thing I and a lot of others have done; I'll just tell you that having been there and done that... it feels a lot better to get legit and stay that way, and have the peace of knowing that one mistake won't have me spending the rest of my life fixing it.

Food for thought.
 
With five pages dedicated to burying a young man going through school it's simple to see how you think.

And the way I see it,, is you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. The fellow is still working through school. He hasn't had the time or money to even reach a level in his career that you feel he should have.

And that's why I think you got the guy all wrong.
 
we've probably all done jobs under the table.

chances are, all of us have worked our way up with very little assistance, or perceived assistance, of any kind.

and all of us probably feel we are still working our way to some point of security, financial, eduational, or otherwise.

"Under the table" is a funny concept, the very phrase implies deceit. When work performed under the table seems to benefit all and harm no one, there's no issue. But is that always really the case?

The reasons why contractors need to get licensed, bonded and insured are obvious, and even if they aren't obvious to you, they are still the law. There's no point in listing all the what-if's and this-one-time stories, we all know the risks involved with working without insurance. The risks to us as individuals, people we work with, and property owners as well as all other taxpayers and insurance buyers.

There's another component to "under the table" in my estimation, and that is a certain degree of humility. Having the common sense not to advertise in the Yellow Pages. Not to appear to be a legitimate business. When you advertise, on craigslist or anywhere else, you're taking your first tentative steps into the big kids pool.
It will be assumed you've got skills. It will be assumed you know the rules. It will be assumed you've prepared yourself for the game. And part of that preparation is being licensed, bonded, and insured. There are already a lot of people here in the big kids pool, and for us to demand a level playing field should be expected. We jumped through the hoops, and so can you.

Really, it's fortunate that funkytreehugger got this minor slap on the wrist. It's better that Kroll called him out on a bulletin board. Other scenarios are much less pleasant... imagine an on the job injury, or god forbid fatality? Imagine you do a job for a litigous, predatory client who picked you because he knew you weren't legit? Imagine you are one of the lucky "contractors" to have the CCB enforcement officer stop by your worksite and ask for your credentials and CCB#?

I don't think anybody's beating up on funkytreehugger...
Mario always comes off strangely, Kroll is justifiably irritated, and Mr Beranek sees himself in the guy, which I do too.... to a degree. I certainly knew better than to make up business cards, magnetic signs, or take out an ad in the phone book. And thank god, when I was getting rolling, I don't think the internet was available to a guy like me....

Plus, craigslist works in conjunction with the CCB in most states. Contact them, and they'll pull the ad. craigslist is good news for prostitutes and stolen merchandise, bad news for guns and illegitimate contractors.
 
After this I'm sure funky tree hugger isn't going to be so open about his work interests with anyone anywhere. But there will be more like him that will run ads, and the internet watch dogs will pounce on them and tear'em up.

And there's certainly some people that should be. But for a young man starting out a little helpful advise from others would go a lot farther towards teaching them ethics.

I'll let it go at that.
 
In the case of this tree worker, it appears that lack of insurance putting other's money, house, education and food funds at risk should really have half the center of attention.
 
it reminds me of reformed smokers!!! smoke smoke smoke , then quit and give everybody grief about smokin!!
I started out as a spiker/topper when i went out on my own guess what? I worked out of my pick up!! and under bid everysingle company i could so that in this freemarket country called America I could start my VERY OWN biz and live the dream!some people wanted me some wanted Bartlett. the Market will determine that!also just cause someone is certified doesnt mean they charge enough! duh! NOw im a NJ CTE and on my state ISA board and I teach for THE CAA.
Maybe this poor boy should suck off the system instead of being rescourceful and makin his own way!! sarcasm intended!!
I get some of the concerns i do !! but some off the tenor on here is down right pompass!! Bunch a pompass windbags.....all smellin themselves!
Hes learnin and growin!!
 
[ QUOTE ]

Maybe this poor boy should suck off the system instead of being rescourceful and makin his own way!! sarcasm intended!!
I get some of the concerns i do !! but some off the tenor on here is down right pompass!! Bunch a pompass windbags.....all smellin themselves!
Hes learnin and growin!!

[/ QUOTE ]


You say he is resourceful. Is picking the easy illegal path that puts fast money in the pocket resourceful?

Wouldn't the person who finds one of many legal alternatives be the resourceful one?

[ QUOTE ]
it reminds me of reformed smokers!!! smoke smoke smoke , then quit and give everybody grief about smokin!!


[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like quite a stretch of the imagination.

You know what it reminds me of? The woman taken in adultery. Spared from stoning, she was flatly confronted to go and sin no more, with no dwelling on excuses.
 
"they have a cottonwood hanging over their horse pasture that has been scaring them for a while but they never had the money to take it down"

from running crews (?) for a legit outfit to pandering to oldsters' arborphobia about their horses getting bonked by a tree--what are the odds? Better to offer them free psych counseling, or just prune the thing, or let them sell the stupid hayburning dung producers if they are so destitute. get me a violin.

Sustainable ag degree builds an arb career...how? Are you serious about arb or just using your skills and whoring your credential to float down other paths? Maybe the high school habits are still clouding your judgment. how much spent on recreational substances last month? get me a viola.

my kid is totally antiwar godbless him but he signed up to stay on uncle sam's good side--the word is out to kids loud and clear; truly sorry you missed it but Not every schooling choice deserves a ton of slack. college vastly overrated anyway. get me a cello.

ok off all my soapboxes now.
crazy.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom