How would you spend $100k?

Most of my work is small to medium removals, almost entirely residential.
A good 10% of them have been trees that have been standing dead for too long to be comfortable climbing them, which is why I’m looking for a forestry truck. This region has been hit really hard by the EAB, so there is going to be a steady stream of crispy Ash for the next several years. I’m also pretty slow and methodical in the tree, so having a lift would certainly speed up my productivity.
 
flyingsquirrel25 said:
Netting 3k per month, you should be grossing 6k a month or better. Which tells me you are working every Saturday some Sundays. If you are consistent with this and you still have work lined up 2, 4 or even 6 weeks out you want to look at ways to increase your productivity. This is where Sean’s questions really come into play. In our area a decent mini skid can add 2-3 times the productivity allowing more work in less time which will increase profitability significantly, at least until you get used to running with it, then it will level off. But a mini is much less of an invcrease for a 6” chipper. It feeding a 15” chipper... now that’s worth it. It’s kind of a balancing act. Skid steer calls for a bigger chipper to more efficiently process debris, which then calls for a bigger truck to haul that debris... or a second truck, or third. We replaced the truck then the chipper was the bottle neck, replaced the chipper then the skid steer was to slow/small. Now the truck is too small again so we are looking at a second. It’s a vicious cycle of investing in new or bigger stuff!
When you say you have been set up for a “little while”, what does that equate to? 2 years, 5 years, or 6 months?
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I’ve been at it for 5 years now part time. I spent some time logging in my late-teens and 20s, and learned rigging working as a ski patroller out west on technical rescues and chairlift evacs. I got a lot of high explosives and avalanche control experience there too, but that skillset doesn’t come in too handy for me these days lol.
 
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WVTrees said:
I got a lot of high explosives and avalanche control experience there too, but that skillset doesn’t come in too handy for me these days lol.
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but it could if you marketed yourself right... blow some tops!
I'd say a good mid sized chipper (with a winch) and a mini. If your set on a bucket and working small to med removals perhaps a spider lift, and a flatbed dump. Use it as a bucket truck, but you could still access inaccessible nasty trees that other bucket boys couldnt or shouldnt do. Fill a niche market is key, once you do that well you can diversify into tooling up for more mundane work.
 
evo said:
but it could if you marketed yourself right... blow some tops!
I'd say a good mid sized chipper (with a winch) and a mini. If your set on a bucket and working small to med removals perhaps a spider lift, and a flatbed dump. Use it as a bucket truck, but you could still access inaccessible nasty trees that other bucket boys couldnt or shouldnt do. Fill a niche market is key, once you do that well you can diversify into tooling up for more mundane work.
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That would actually be ideal, but I don’t think I can pull all that off with just $100k
 
WVTrees said:
That would actually be ideal, but I don’t think I can pull all that off with just $100k
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Put the $ in the spider, and get a flatbed dump for 10K or under.. look at auctions etc for a deal. That would leave about 90K for a spider? What do they run for?
 
WVTrees said:
Still need to chip and handle the wood though.
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True, but with your niche you can get a used chipper after some time. Market your self well and the rest will fall into place. I bet 99% of the companies in your area have a chip truck and chipper. Perhaps 40-70% have bucket trucks. How many have spider lifts, and can do the super sketchy stuff where a triad bucket can’t reach? I only move wood 2-6 times a year, rent a mini when I need to, the rest of the time I tell my clients that there are crews of retired guys partnered with local churches who have wood banks. They come and haul the wood, split and cure it, the give it away to low income families. There are about 3-4 organizations like that. Then there is always neighbors, Craigslist etc. I bluntly tell them they can pay me to take the wood (delivering to the wood bank) or have them pick it up for free.
 
WVTrees said:
I’d rather do neither...but I also don’t want to settle for equipment I’ll have to be wrenching on all the time. One of my occasional groundies is a diesel mechanic by trade, so some wrenching is ok.
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That’s just how I would spend it. If your legit you will be the only one who knows what you need
 
evo said:
True, but with your niche you can get a used chipper after some time. Market your self well and the rest will fall into place. I bet 99% of the companies in your area have a chip truck and chipper. Perhaps 40-70% have bucket trucks. How many have spider lifts, and can do the super sketchy stuff where a triad bucket can’t reach? I only move wood 2-6 times a year, rent a mini when I need to, the rest of the time I tell my clients that there are crews of retired guys partnered with local churches who have wood banks. They come and haul the wood, split and cure it, the give it away to low income families. There are about 3-4 organizations like that. Then there is always neighbors, Craigslist etc. I bluntly tell them they can pay me to take the wood (delivering to the wood bank) or have them pick it up for free.
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That’s actually the direction I want to go in about theee years, but for now I want to grind out as many “regular” jobs as I can in the limited time I have...I’m leaning toward this split:

$30k - chipper
$50k - forestry truck
$10k - mini skid
$5k - dump trailer
$3k - GRCS
$2k - hookers/blow
 
I would skip the bucket/lift idea. They are pricey upfront and on the back end. For a small operation the most ideal setup, as far as I'm concerned is this:
1. Chip truck.
2. Chipper with 18" capacity.
3. Mini skid
4. Dump trailer

This is pretty much reiterating what you already said, but that's what I would go with. I wouldn't bother with a bucket until you're seriously inundated with work and can justify the expense. Just know the bucket does not always mean faster work - it just means less effort. Sometimes the bucket is more of a hassle than just saddling up.

Just my .02
 
WVTrees said:
Most of my work is small to medium removals, almost entirely residential.
A good 10% of them have been trees that have been standing dead for too long to be comfortable climbing them, which is why I’m looking for a forestry truck. This region has been hit really hard by the EAB, so there is going to be a steady stream of crispy Ash for the next several years. I’m also pretty slow and methodical in the tree, so having a lift would certainly speed up my productivity.
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100k is the downpayment for a treemek. No employee, small biz model with lots of punch. Perfect for dead tree removals.
 
In my opinion for what its worth, if you are already making money in tree work, the best way to grow the business is with the lowest overhead you can get. If you can do this work without borrowing money and you are willing to reinvest back into the business, it will take almost the same time to gain the equipment as the experience. The 2 are interconnected.
In other words your needs to get to the next level will be incremental and you will learn at each new investment. If you were to go, (all in) you may not be at a point in your learning or clientele to reap the benefits of the investment. You may also purchase equipment you can not afford to insure or operate / maintain. You may not have enough man power to utilize the equipment effectively.
Fortunately, this business allows many of us to do this work, case in point a contract climber, with very little upfront cash investment. If you dont understand the concept of ROI return on investment, it would be wise to seek financial counseling from an accounting advisor. There is much to learn about depreciating assets, tax incentives and the like. The type of loan or lease will have a huge impact on your bottom line too! It may be better to get a line of credit to operate your business on?
To wrap up here 100,000 dollars does not go very far but it does go very fast! And when its gone you have no cushion! I would almost say, " if I had 100,000 dollars what would I do with half of it?" and save the rest for a broken leg.
 
Stephen Moore said:
In my opinion for what its worth, if you are already making money in tree work, the best way to grow the business is with the lowest overhead you can get. If you can do this work without borrowing money and you are willing to reinvest back into the business, it will take almost the same time to gain the equipment as the experience. The 2 are interconnected.
In other words your needs to get to the next level will be incremental and you will learn at each new investment. If you were to go, (all in) you may not be at a point in your learning or clientele to reap the benefits of the investment. You may also purchase equipment you can not afford to insure or operate / maintain. You may not have enough man power to utilize the equipment effectively.
Fortunately, this business allows many of us to do this work, case in point a contract climber, with very little upfront cash investment. If you dont understand the concept of ROI return on investment, it would be wise to seek financial counseling from an accounting advisor. There is much to learn about depreciating assets, tax incentives and the like. The type of loan or lease will have a huge impact on your bottom line too! It may be better to get a line of credit to operate your business on?
To wrap up here 100,000 dollars does not go very far but it does go very fast! And when its gone you have no cushion! I would almost say, " if I had 100,000 dollars what would I do with half of it?" and save the rest for a broken leg.
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Very wise advice. Growing slowly and organically insures stability. When it’s time for large investments it will be painfully obvious. When we were growing part time it was hard for me to spend big money on new trucks, chippers and the such. Bought a small truck then a used chipper. A used mini followed. It was all good until we decided to go full time. The extra stress of every day made the truck too small, then the chipper broke down (multiple times). Replaced the truck in June and chipper in October of our first ft year. The skid steer the next summer. And hopefully another truck this summer. And a lift next. Having a plan is great, but plans must be fluid. Financial advice is important, one thing I only did during tax season. Accountants are smart and can help you invest wisely in many aspects. Tax benefits, loan vs cash, even just to bounce questions off. Mine is currently helping us set up payroll (through another vendor) and WC insurance. Not in their normal job but the more we succeed the more they do as well !
 
flyingsquirrel25 said:
Very wise advice. Growing slowly and organically insures stability. When it’s time for large investments it will be painfully obvious. When we were growing part time it was hard for me to spend big money on new trucks, chippers and the such. Bought a small truck then a used chipper. A used mini followed. It was all good until we decided to go full time. The extra stress of every day made the truck too small, then the chipper broke down (multiple times). Replaced the truck in June and chipper in October of our first ft year. The skid steer the next summer. And hopefully another truck this summer. And a lift next. Having a plan is great, but plans must be fluid. Financial advice is important, one thing I only did during tax season. Accountants are smart and can help you invest wisely in many aspects. Tax benefits, loan vs cash, even just to bounce questions off. Mine is currently helping us set up payroll (through another vendor) and WC insurance. Not in their normal job but the more we succeed the more they do as well !
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Very good, it sounds like you are learning as you go. You can make a single bad investment instead of several at once and rebound from it without much consequence. You have a plan and are flexible as life changes also. You now understand that a machine alone will not make you money without expense and that occasional upgrades and repairs are needed. Its a learning process that cant be rushed to work properly. The biggest thing is the ROI, because after all a business is supposed to make a profit, and you and your employees must also make money. Very hard to do when you are over extended.
 
Hey I forgot to mention something too. In addition to regular expenses, you also get to look forward to blowing a hydraulic pump in a bucket truck! I wonder what that costs to repair? Maybe a hose inside the boom? You don't wanna go there! BIG money to repair that! How bout blow hydraulic oil all over buddies brand new stone pavers when a hose blows! MMM just gets my heart pumping! So how fast can I spend 100,000 dollars? There's a million ways to spend a 1000 dollars my mom used to say.
 
evo said:
Put the $ in the spider, and get a flatbed dump for 10K or under.. look at auctions etc for a deal. That would leave about 90K for a spider? What do they run for?
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A cheap assed used one? Maybe 90 grand, but remember the annual inspections and maintenance is pretty high on those. I was looking into getting a 120 footer , but the total input was huge!
 
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