How would you prune this tree

Mick Dempsey said:
Well sometimes you do,

There are a million scenarios whereby a mechanic might say you may want to do this or that and you might not want to do it for cost reasons.

You don’t tell him how to do it, but you do tell him what you want done.
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Sure. But if it’s what is wrong for the vehicle any self respecting mechanic will tell the client and not perform that work.
 
Jzack605 said:
Sure. But if it’s what is wrong for the vehicle any self respecting mechanic will tell the client and not perform that work.
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There’s a difference, there are absolutes in mechanics and construction. A RIGHT way to do a particular job.

Tree work is far more nuanced with different factors.
Something might not be ideal for a tree, but it will survive the work and continue on giving amenity to your client.

There is a tendency in this industry amongst some to over blow their professional standing.
We’re not doctors, or lawyers or architects, we climb up trees and take bits off or don’t, there’s not much more to it than that.
 
I think there are a few standards of arboriculture that are fairly established as to what is the ‘right’ way to do something. And as evidenced by bringing vehicles in to different mechanics, 5 professional mechanics may have different ideas about how to take care of the same problem.

The average vehicle these days has a life expectancy of 8 years. It’s just a collection of metal plastic and liquids that transports people. Trees are living organisms that can live hundreds of years. It’s my opinion that our level of responsibility to a tree is higher than that of a mechanic to a vehicle, aside from keeping the car from causing harm to anyone.
 
If it was as simple as climbing up a tree and taking bits off here and there wouldn’t everyone be able to do it?

Tree work can be a complicated and highly technical profession that carries a high amount of risk and liability. A lawyer isn’t removing a huge tree with a crane right over a house. Or setting rigging, working near high voltage lines, etc.

And besides it doesn’t need to be a comparison of what profession has a higher standing, etc.

I think a lack of professionalism and business ethics is actually a big problem in the industry.
 
For example, I’ve been told by people before that they’ve had companies come out to do assessments and were basically just told to take the tree down, when in fact the customer wanted to keep the tree if it was healthy and wanted opinions on how to keep it thriving. But some companies are just chasing the dollar and trying to win a high paying removal job. That’s a problem in my opinion.

Giving an honest assessment goes both ways. Sometimes it’s in line with what the customer is thinking, and sometimes you have to do some educating.

And as @Jzack605 put it, if a client isn’t willing to listen to your input, you have the choice to walk away if what they are asking you to do goes against your better judgment and your ethics.
 
climbingmonkey24 said:
If it was as simple as climbing up a tree and taking bits off here and there wouldn’t everyone be able to do it?

Tree work can be a complicated and highly technical profession that carries a high amount of risk and liability. A lawyer isn’t removing a huge tree with a crane right over a house. Or setting rigging, working near high voltage lines, etc.

And besides it doesn’t need to be a comparison of what profession has a higher standing, etc.

I think a lack of professionalism and business ethics is actually a big problem in the industry.
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Yeah, we’re all superheroes etc…
 
Mick Dempsey said:
Well since you ask.
I would have banged out a crown reduction, not now, later in the year.
Tried to get it into a better shape from where it i s pulling away from that bigger oak in next doors garden.

Maples like that react well to reductions.
Go back every 5/7 years, rinse and repeat.
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What time of year do you prefer for working on maples in your area?
 
Mick Dempsey said:
there’s not much more to it than that.
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I strongly disagree.. sure there are different means to the same end. But there’s a whole bunch of ways to fuck shit up….
Engineers fucked up out many million dollar ferry boat we nicknamed it Ilean. She still runs the roughest route in the ferry system. What did the state do? Order 3 more with the same design. Their solution was just to fill the light half of the boat. About 4/5 years later they finally got the bright idea to fill half the hull with steel shot so she can rust out from the inside as fast as the outside
 
Mick, do you ever find yourself getting a request from a client and finding you have to talk to them and steer them towards a different course, because their idea is kind of terrible? Or do you always just do what they ask of you?
 
Stumpsprouts said:
Mick, do you ever find yourself getting a request from a client and finding you have to talk to them and steer them towards a different course, because their idea is kind of terrible? Or do you always just do what they ask of you?
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Good question.
I often steer them towards a better solution (IMO) sometimes I’ll flat out say no if I think it’s stupid.
But I try first to listen to what it is they want from the work, do they want more light? are they scared of it falling on the property? do they want to get a better view?

Then I work to getting the outcome they want. Customer first, tree second.

Plus I will never give the impression that I am ‘educating’ them.
If a tradesman said that to me they’d be in the truck and off the property in less than 60 seconds.
 
“Educating” is just a loose way of saying that you are politely explaining the pros and cons to different solutions and options, etc.

Doesn’t necessarily infer that you are talking down to someone, acting like they don’t know what they’re talking about, etc. At least that’s not what I meant when I used the term.

It’s a forum, things can easily get interpreted one way but was meant a different way.
 
Mick Dempsey said:
Good question.
I often steer them towards a better solution (IMO) sometimes I’ll flat out say no if I think it’s stupid.
But I try first to listen to what it is they want from the work, do they want more light? are they scared of it falling on the property? do they want to get a better view?

Then I work to getting the outcome they want. Customer first, tree second.

Plus I will never give the impression that I am ‘educating’ them.
If a tradesman said that to me they’d be in the truck and off the property in less than 60 seconds.
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Respectfully, after saying earlier in the thread that I dissuaded the client from a height reduction, you just said yourself you will sometimes steer the client towards a better solution in your opinion...

In my opinion a height reduction was not appropriate for this tree at this time. For one, she didn’t flat out say she wanted a height reduction, she asked my professional opinion as to whether I thought the tree was too tall and I said no. That was my opinion. We came up with a work plan. I showed up to do the work according to the work plan.

So I don’t understand what the reason was for all the back and forth when essentially we are all in agreement that sometimes you need to try and explain a better solution to a client, or sometimes just say no if what they are asking is just totally off or “stupid” as you put it.

Keeping in mind that we each may have a slightly different perspective on things, different way of doing things or different recommendations, and one isn’t necessarily the only right way of doing things.
 
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climbingmonkey24 said:
“Educating” is just a loose way of saying that you are politely explaining the pros and cons to different solutions and options, etc.

Doesn’t necessarily infer that you are talking down to someone, acting like they don’t know what they’re talking about, etc. At least that’s not what I meant when I used the term.

It’s a forum, things can easily get interpreted one way but was meant a different way.
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I educate the snot out of clients, including medical doctors who are much, much, much smarter.

The doctor the other day said, "thanks for educating me".


She understands human biology, not tree biology; she understands more about the trees than she values after my visit.

No condescension.
 
southsoundtree said:
I educate the snot out of clients, including medical doctors who are much, much, much smarter.

The doctor the other day said, "thanks for educating me".


She understands human biology, not tree biology; she understands more about the trees than she values after my visit.

No condescension.
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I get the same thing. I’ve had customers comment on how much they learned after walking around their back yard with me. Unfortunately, then they often take that knowledge and hire the cheap guy down the street to do the work…
 
It happens, sometimes. I am small and pick and choose, working mostly on referral.






I'm going to start giving away
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to good customers. $25

I keep one in my truck.
I'll ask if I can give their trees a drink during drought while we walk and talk.
 
Reach said:
Unfortunately, then they often take that knowledge and hire the cheap guy down the street to do the work…
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You're doing a consultation but giving an estimate. Consults pay. Estimates are free.

Actually, in the true meaning of the word, you're not consulting though.

I didn't learn this until the end of my time doing sales. For an estimate the client knows what the want and tells us. We give a price. If we're educating then there is a charge. If the client wants our knowledge they pay for it. Our accountants and attorneys charge for their knowledge, why don't we?
 
But to an extent every bid is a consultation, imagine a scenario where you’re there to look at one tree.

“While you’re here, what do you think about this oak?”

”I can’t comment unless you give me money”
 
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