How to tell when it's too dead

Had a bad spindly dead pine today. About 100'. Didn't want to climb it. Boss man said I was good cause it still had pine cones on it. I decided to hang it in another tree. After looking at my rigging I decided to put a second line in it from another tree. I was afraid the top would break out. Everybody thought I was being over cautious. Well good thing because the top broke out and I had the trunk rigged in one tree and the top in the other. Worked out perfectly but solidified my point that this tree wasn't a climber. Sometimes it feels good to be rite and not hurt!
 
It would be cool to keep this thread going with people sharing their experiences like what Steve described. There's lots to learn and share in regards to how we approach these situations.
Crazy things happen. I've read some crazy stories on here, and when reading the details, I've learned some things to NOT do, and thing to keep an eye out for.

Plus its just cool seeing what we all run into for jobs in our day to day basis.
 
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classictruckman said:
Not trying to start a argument here, but I've been anti-pull test for most of my career.

When I was talking about breaking roots I was talking about the roots on the side you're pulling to, roots break easier being sheared off rather than pull-breaking. Think about an uprooted tree the roots on the side it fell to are usually sheared off whereas the roots on the other side are pulled and lifted, not broken.
Click to expand...
This is wrong^.
Roots breaking against the earth/an immovable object opposed roots pulling out from the earth into empty space.
Pull test every time or observe in higher winds
 
I didn't care to argue about the roots thing for a simple reason, we were talking about dead trees.. really dead trees. If that tree is long dead, with most species the roots are, too. They'll snap like limbs as soon as it starts to go over, on both sides of the tree. My point was really that if you can move that root plate enough to see the ground swell and buckle as you do it... well, all but the big roots close to the tree are probably rotted away to sawdust and nothing good can come of climbing it. I just happen to think that a simple pull test usually tells you what you need to know without any expense. With a vehicle, or with three fat boys and a chubby girl... either way, it's simple and probably as accurate as any other way. If I had those X-ray vision glasses from the back pages of the comic books, I'd just use those... ;)
 
Reading this thread I'm reminded of my first medium Ash removal under my own company, at the very beginning of my foray into tree work. 75' Ash with a straight trunk up to about 55'. Got my throwball stuck after a million misses because I was too scared to spike up a straight pole for 55' without a safety line at the time.. Well, had to do it anyway once the throwball wouldn't come down. Got to about 45 feet off the ground and was confronted with the biggest mushroom I had ever seen in my life! Seriously, it was only about an inch across but that fucker may as well have been the death star, because when I saw it I damn near shit my pants. I wouldn't climb past it because I was convinced the tree was going to fall over if I went above that MASSIVE SHROOM! I called my brother in law from the tree and he laughed his ass off and told me to get on with it, and if I was scared to just take smaller pieces. (He's a 30 year veteran in the business).

Anyway, that was a long time ago.. but I got a laugh when I remembered that one. Thought I'd share it!
 
I've never walked away from a tree. If I do it's because I'm coming back with a crane and or bucket. If I'm in said tree and if it feels shaky I come back with the trucks. Sometimes I tell myself "I'm just an ant" to this tree, take off a little more weight, and climb a little higher. I do this when not accessible by truck. The crane we use can pick from 90' away with 130' height w/o the jib. That leaves the un-accessible ones far enough away from structures that I can bomb the ground with them. No rigging required, other than a tag line or old school phrase "pull rope". I then climb a little higher ... the ant that I am. Work smart and work safe everyone.
 
Been thinking about the "part timer" discussion. What is a part timer really? Hourly I suppose I am. 2 weeks I climb 3 days a week and the third week 4 days. When I have a day off from the fire station I do tree work. I invest a lot in gear and time in learning my craft. I'd much rather do it full time but this works for now until I can retire so what value does the full time vs part time title have? I suppose it would have to be a case by case decision wouldn't it? I am part time but am I not more full time than say a guy who only does jobs on Saturday or Sunday? I get the most complicated trees and the best pruning jobs. Certainly my boss must place more confidence in me than just a part timer. Not really sure why I was thinking about this today. Maybe because we've had a rash of big and tall pines split at the base and hung up on other trees. My counterpart has no problem climbing them without an alternative tip. Seems odd to me but he is a full timer! I don't know if he is a better climber or just oblivious. Boss knows better than to even suggest I do these. Just doesn't seem like the risk is worth it. There is always a safer way. I double lined and hung one the other day. BJ cut it free and I lowered it. Worked perfect but it wasn't how the boss wanted to do it. I didn't like his idea but I guess he liked mine so we went for it and everything worked out well. I've got video I'll post once I can get it edited. Rant complete. I guess I wanted to hear treevet and Levi's take on part time tree work. They seemed to have some passionate thoughts on the subject.
 
No no no Jeff. Not picking a fight. Just asking an opinion from some tree dudes. Lol. Just reflecting on my week and the volume of production I did as compared to the other climber and the one who just got fired.
 
No. You didn't. Earlier on this threat things were intense with the vet. There were comments made about a part time guy not being able to be much of a tree man or something to that effect. Maybe a question of their dedication to the craft. I don't remember exactly but the vet clarified his understanding of my situation and you did too. I guess it just stuck with me that's all. I guess it was on my mind because today while the full time guy was making excuses not to climb I was doing 100% of the production while he walked, smoked, and checked the phone. That left me thinking, well fuck me, I'm part time and I'm the primary production climber in this circus. How the hell does that happen? That's all. I'm not offended but I guess the more I thought about it the more I felt like I needed to defend my position. The truth is the only guy on here that's actually met me and worked with me is Paul (pctree). Im thinking if anyone actually knew me or worked with me they'd see I'm not a "poser" (can you guess the movie). No hard feelings. All is well and skippy in the buzz land.
 
And the quote for the movie question is "fucking posers". Had to have been said about 100 times in this movie. I'd be really surprised if you or Mac hadn't seen it. 1998 release. Filmed west of the Tetons. Geographic location in its name.
 
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Levi.CO said:
Errr... I don't know... what did I say???

I would simply sum it up like this- if your primary income is from tree work then you are full time. If not, you're part time.

If you endlessly comment about your gear but never put up any work pictures or videos, you are a keyboard arborist. It's pretty easy to tell from someone's posts if they are really climbing and cutting or not. Some people know all the technical stuff but not much else. It's like street smarts vs. book smarts. It's best to have both. And there is nothing wrong whatsoever with being part time or not fully dedicated, that's awesome!

Steve, if it matters, I personally know that you can hustle trees! Hope I didn't offend you some way.

Cheers mate!
Click to expand...
My primary income is whatever work is bringing the buck home. I do roofing and tree work to the point where I choose what work is bringing home the most coin. There have been instances where it's been tree after tree for 8-9 months at a stretch, with 2-3 days spent banging out a quick roof. Other times I may not see a tree job for quite a spell. I've been roofing for 25 yrs and tree working for 13 yrs or so. It is nice to have more than one trade to fall back on. When I'm on a roof job it's rare a neighbor wants an estimate. On a tree job people come from all over the neighborhood with a tree or two they want down. It amazes me in the difference of available work.
 
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