How much more does a crotch weigh??

Civil war? How about revolutionary war graves! The oldest one near the tree is dated 1736. And yes, it all has to go up with little movement. Those laterals, two of which are propped will be tricky due to the number of tombstones under them.

We have found a way to work the concrete. One of our concerns is the the pick gets off the ground and the concrete chunk comes sliding out! I'm thinking I'm not going to get much sleep the night before.
 
Thinking about keeping the load balanced so nothing gives way on the opposite side of the tree as you snip each of those 90 year old cables makes my head ache.

The vague questions about calculating crotch weight all make sense now. Much to think about. Very exciting.
 
treehumper said:
We have found a way to work the concrete. One of our concerns is the the pick gets off the ground and the concrete chunk comes sliding out! I'm thinking I'm not going to get much sleep the night before.
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What about using a rotary hammer with a concrete bit to bore all the way through the trunk and concrete? You could then "Pin" the concrete in place inside the trunk with 1 or more pieces of pipe with a diameter slightly smaller than the bit. Kind of like a toothpick to hold the pimento in an olive in a martini.

I was able to find a 3' long 3/4" diameter fully fluted concrete bit to work with my Bosch rotary hammer without much trouble at www.cpo.com. I use it for making pilot holes to start ground rods for lightning protection systems. I'm sure that with a bit of sleuthing, longer and larger diameter bits could be found.
 
That's part of the plan. Use that and a hydraulic wedge to separate the concrete at the cut. The toothpick idea sounds good!
N.e.Tree said:
What size crane are you going with?
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Thanks to @Mark Chisholm we have a 150 ton crane to work with. The numbers he gave us for his capacity at the distance to the pick is what I'm working with. That we want to get as much useable wood out of this is also a factor. There is a very high end furniture designer/maker that is going to repurpose it.
Check out his stuff here.

We've got a day scheduled for the planning of the cuts.
 
treehumper said:
That's part of the plan. Use that and a hydraulic wedge to separate the concrete at the cut. The toothpick idea sounds good!

Thanks to @Mark Chisholm we have a 150 ton crane to work with. The numbers he gave us for his capacity at the distance to the pick is what I'm working with. That we want to get as much useable wood out of this is also a factor. There is a very high end furniture designer/maker that is going to repurpose it.
Check out his stuff here.

We've got a day scheduled for the planning of the cuts.
Click to expand...

Sounds like he'll need a lot of high end replacement blades for his bandsaw.:muyenojado:
 
Bump back to this thread. I got close to being in a pickle the other day. The picks were coming in light and then there was the crotch wood. Off the charts. I mean like to the moon alice off the charts. After all is said and done was there any reasonable information learned about the orig question on this job. General consensus seems to be add 1/3 to the pick weight. It tough for me transitioning from climber to operator. I have a much better feel as the climber than the crane op. Feeling the mass of the wood when I dig in my spurs, absorbing the girth based on my flipline, all intuition from experience and some simple math. The phenomenon of how small it looks in the tree and how huge it is on the ground is pretty tricky. I was over chart based on boom configuration. I was able to successfully recover but it was not an evolution I'd like to repeat. In hindsight we should have taken down another section of fence and backed up 15'. Just that 15 would have increased my boom angle from 45d to 70d and I would have had it all day long. I have some solid conversations with a bunch of folks over the last few days unfortunately the outcomes are the same. Nobody knows.
 
safe to assume in general any wood that is seeing loads ie compressed or tensioned wood cells is going to be denser. so double your weight or more. mb reconsider utilizing the girdling techniques we described few yrs ago. Dry them out and reduce weight.
 
Try using the climber as perspective @Steve Connally even if you have to measure them across the shoulders each day. Write that number down in the cab, then you will at least have a visual and a size. Average man in US (Google says) is 18.5" but that may be a lie. I am 22" and I am certainly not a giant.
 
monkeylove said:
Try using the climber as perspective @Steve Connally even if you have to measure them across the shoulders each day. Write that number down in the cab, then you will at least have a visual and a size. Average man in US (Google says) is 18.5" but that may be a lie. I am 22" and I am certainly not a giant.
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Oh for sure. I do and I did. Its just the sheer mass and density of that wood. I talked to several people who would have guessed the pic weight about what I did. Only talked to one guy who nailed the actual weight first guess. Its just tough and not scientific at all. The diameter and length wasn't the issue. It was the density of the wood.
 
It's just experience. Plain and simple. It comes over time. Im used to looking from the ground, and when i get hoisted up, I tend to over estimate.
 
A7FFC5FD-694C-402C-9AEF-0D9D2B41C212.webpIt’s been a while and I just revisited this thread. It all worked out in the end. 100 man-hrs. of planning paid off. The crane was maxed on the final pick at 46k lbs. I had estimated 30-36k but for a smaller piece. I used some assumptions on concrete weight and potential volume in that section and a 20% adjustment for the union.

I’d still like to find some research on this as it is a major consideration for our business. Relying on the forestry industry doesn’t wash as it really does t factor in for them.

The first shot is the final piece and the second is the elusive concrete along with 1” hardened steel rod in the main union. $10k worth of chains and blades for that cut. Thankfully that wasn’t us!
F5B7E384-768E-4C1D-98B6-AA252E774838.webp
 
treehumper said:
View attachment 54858It’s been a while and I just revisited this thread. It all worked out in the end. 100 man-hrs. of planning paid off. The crane was maxed on the final pick at 46k lbs. I had estimated 30-36k but for a smaller piece. I used some assumptions on concrete weight and potential volume in that section and a 20% adjustment for the union.

I’d still like to find some research on this as it is a major consideration for our business. Relying on the forestry industry doesn’t wash as it really does t factor in for them.

The first shot is the final piece and the second is the elusive concrete along with 1” hardened steel rod in the main union. $10k worth of chains and blades for that cut. Thankfully that wasn’t us!
View attachment 54857
Click to expand...

Holy, you got an inventory of what was used??
 
Sorry to say but someone seriously screwed up! Move the stones. cut out the root flares and pull into the lay. Simple and easy to move stones and protect the graves/ inground/ground.
Wow seriously if you are doing cemetary work, save them some coin and move the stones.
 
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