How many hacks?

rico said:
I get it Deevo. I had to go to town today which is about a 4 hour round trip and got to witness some world class, gawd awful tree work. Topping 5-6 beautiful Coastal Live Oaks. Done by a big, rebuttable outfit. Someone butchered an amazing clump of Monterey Cypress so the home owner could see the ocean. Another fool limbed up a grove of 170ft Redwoods to 120 ft. No shit! The sad part is that the clients were most likely quite happy with the work.

No matter what line of work we’re talking about, there will always be hacks. That just the way it is. They do have the right to exist, and make a living like the rest of us. It is up to those who know better to do their best on every job, and educate as many as they can about what good tree work looks like.
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We’re growing on ya aren’t we
 
rico said:
I get it Deevo. I had to go to town today which is about a 4 hour round trip and got to witness some world class, gawd awful tree work. Topping 5-6 beautiful Coastal Live Oaks. Done by a big, rebuttable outfit. Someone butchered an amazing clump of Monterey Cypress so the home owner could see the ocean. Another fool limbed up a grove of 170ft Redwoods to 120 ft. No shit! The sad part is that the clients were most likely quite happy with the work.

No matter what line of work we’re talking about, there will always be hacks. That just the way it is. They do have the right to exist, and make a living like the rest of us. It is up to those who know better to do their best on every job, and educate as many as they can about what good tree work looks like.
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Agreed. The only problem is that hacks in other grades usually don't have the high risk of killing themselves while performing their hackery. Our ha is do tend to think the herd.
 
When toilet scrubbers are required to have a doctorate in Waste Management, and a certificate proving they've watched 60 hours of Shit Containment video seminars... FINALLY... they will get the respect they rightfully deserve, and we won't have all these unqualified, hack toilet scrubber wannabe assholes running around stealing all the good jobs and driving Shit Scrubber Liability insurance rates through the ceiling. I mean, really! You can't just scrub a toilet without understanding the dangers of e. coli and getting your shoes all turdy, and stuff. You could drown in the toilet, without proper instruction and a 7-year apprenticeship program. Next thing you know, Chiropractors will be given professional status, like brain surgeons, and... oh, wait... that really happened.
 
treebing said:
to be fair, plumbers are much more regulated than tree trimmers. it is much more difficult to be a hack plumber than a hack tree guy. People care more about their shit than they do about trees generally speaking.
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They care about it leaving their premises. They only care about their trees when that are laying on or.in their roof. Your point re regulation is valid. The guy who cuts my hair has to have a state license. The lady that does my wife's nails has to have a state license also, but any self appointed tree expert can come on to my property and destroy my tree. There has to be an acceptable answer.
 
JD3000 said:
Is the acceptable answer having tree experts as regulated and educated as the plumbers or electricians? I say yes but categories for who can do what would have to be established and accepted.
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I don't want to be on the committee that decides that, but would most likely support their decisions.
 
I don,t know about other states but in NJ the Tree experts and Tree care operators Licensing Act commences April 17th 2018 anybody engaging in the business of providing tree care services without first registering with the state can be fined up to $1000 for the first violation and $2000 there after
 
We have a problem with them around here as well. We have one in my area that continues to pile stuff on the curb. I get asked at bids if I can do it for half of what I quoted then I'm told this guy will do it for half. Then later I see him piling it all on the curb. The guy can afford to work for half price as all he has is a pickup truck. No chipper or chip truck to maintain, pay for, insure, or license. I've got no problem with competition but these guys operating illegally aren't quite the same thing. We have quite a few without GL insurance around here too. We call them "beer money tree service."
 
That's always nice but these are usually people that have called me from seeing our phone number on our trucks or our yard signs. I have plenty of good referrals and references. Most of these people just need the problem tree gone and don't seem to care at all about high quality work. They just want to spend the least amount of money to get their problem taken care of. Doesn't make repeatedly asked to work at half price to compete with these hacks any less irritating. I have zero problem losing a bid to another legitimate tree service. It irritates me to loose them to hacks that aren't even operating legally. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to compete with them. That's not my target clientele.
 
Fivepoints said:
We have a problem with them around here as well. We have one in my area that continues to pile stuff on the curb. I get asked at bids if I can do it for half of what I quoted then I'm told this guy will do it for half. Then later I see him piling it all on the curb. The guy can afford to work for half price as all he has is a pickup truck. No chipper or chip truck to maintain, pay for, insure, or license. I've got no problem with competition but these guys operating illegally aren't quite the same thing. We have quite a few without GL insurance around here too. We call them "beer money tree service."
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Most of the guys around here doing that are doing it for their next fix. I really cant see how someone would even let them on their property.
 
Prequalify your customers on the phone at first contact.

If you're at a computer when they call, you can often see a lot on Google and Bing maps.


Since you're equipped professionals, mention that you'll be in and out in 4 hours (not having Tweeky McTweek and toothless yokels there for three days of worrying when they going to break themselves or stuff).
 
Not ignoring all the orginal points by the OP & the other comments in the thread but our industry hacks are best negated in one simple way... your absolute initial contact with a potential client.

Be it phone or walk up or referral or door knocking etc.... a very tactfully phrased but requiring an answer question: "are you looking for the lowest bid or quality & safety"

.... sure, your reputation matters, safety record matters, knowledge of what we do, the science, the logistics etc, as well as a honest competitive price.. but none of that matters to a client who is literally just looking for the cheapest. In my years I've discovered by asking it, it literally spawns the clients who care to lean my way in signing the contracts, and saves me a TON of wasted time driving out to, or walking through a bid with those just looking for the rock bottom lowest price. The client instantly by being asked, knows you're not there to waste their time... credibility instantly... And as you're doing the walk around looking at what they need, is when you sell them on WHY the lowest bid guys are typically dangerous risk taking hacks that prey on homeowners that are relatively clueless.. because I think we all know, unless a client has had a bad experience with a hack, they don't even know they exist. We all do, but the public can't learn until after they get a pro job, or a hack job....
 
Brutal but effective
TreeSmithAK said:
Not ignoring all the orginal points by the OP & the other comments in the thread but our industry hacks are best negated in one simple way... your absolute initial contact with a potential client.

Be it phone or walk up or referral or door knocking etc.... a very tactfully phrased but requiring an answer question: "are you looking for the lowest bid or quality & safety"

.... sure, your reputation matters, safety record matters, knowledge of what we do, the science, the logistics etc, as well as a honest competitive price.. but none of that matters to a client who is literally just looking for the cheapest. In my years I've discovered by asking it, it literally spawns the clients who care to lean my way in signing the contracts, and saves me a TON of wasted time driving out to, or walking through a bid with those just looking for the rock bottom lowest price. The client instantly by being asked, knows you're not there to waste their time... credibility instantly... And as you're doing the walk around looking at what they need, is when you sell them on WHY the lowest bid guys are typically dangerous risk taking hacks that prey on homeowners that are relatively clueless.. because I think we all know, unless a client has had a bad experience with a hack, they don't even know they exist. We all do, but the public can't learn until after they get a pro job, or a hack job....
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