How do you recognize a node?

guymayor said:
The best answers to the original question might be:.. Look for buds. (A hand lens in the medical bag with the bandaids is very handy!) ...
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LOL! I can just see you doing that, Guy. Seriously though, this was a great discussion with tons of thoughtful input.
Question; if there are multiple protection points (node) along a limb, how much is lost if that point is missed? Will the protective attributes be less effective? How do you handle trees that are bad compartmentalizers with weak protection zones but prolific sprouters?
 
Is that not analogous to leaving a stub rather than making a much larger collar cut? Sure you look for what may be a node but if they're as potentially numerous as we suspect then future arising growth may help nourish compartmentalization I suppose.

As far as the weak codits and prolific sprouters, I let them do their thing then selectively retain, reduce, and remove some. Keep as few a wounds off the already damaged stem as possibly. May be kinda "ugly/sprouty" for a while but oh well. Spent years trying to get landscapers to stop removing every sprout they see.
 
" How do you retain and lower stuff that you cut with pole tools?

Well first I try to remove targets, and cut in small pieces and let drop. 2. use the pole to attach a lowering line. 3. Use the pole to snag and fling the cut piece. 4. Use the pole and/or a rope to pull the branch toward me, so it get cut by hand.

"... work that I consider a bit hazardous since I would pendulum swing back to my TIP - or get stuck - if the sprouts broke off.

Lanyard or TIP2 not possible? Anyway maybe the sprouts are a lot stronger than you give them credit for? Pics would be useful here...
 
Question; if there are multiple protection points (node) along a limb, how much is lost if that point is missed?

Answers: WHICH point? I see a clear difference between a terminal node and an adventitious node, in terms of response, so yes a lot can be lost.

Will the protective attributes (of an adventitious node) be less effective?

Yes. In the pics in the attached, all the branches died back to a terminal node.

How do you handle trees that are bad compartmentalizers with weak protection zones but prolific sprouters?

Depends on what needs handling...but generally, less leaves lost => less sprouting. So minimise the loss of leaves.
 

Attachments

guymayor said:
... Will the protective attributes (of an adventitious node) be less effective?...
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You changed the question by adding (of an adventitious node). My point was if you are working on a limb of such age and size that you need a magnifying glass to find a node or nodal zone, does it matter? It will have a viable protection zone or it won't. If faced with that situation, for whatever reason, cutting close to a growth point will not enhance its chance of survival. Regrowth is always a crapshoot on large cuts. The large surface area of the cut will increase the desiccation rate of surrounding tissues in close proximity, not helping things.
If faced with this type of situation the goal should be for regrowth, wherever it comes from and enough photosynthesis to support the remaining limb. Revisitation for structural purposes will be needed in any case so why not give the tree and ourselves as much to work with as possible.
 
guymayor said:
" How do you retain and lower stuff that you cut with pole tools?

Well first I try to remove targets, and cut in small pieces and let drop. 2. use the pole to attach a lowering line. 3. Use the pole to snag and fling the cut piece. 4. Use the pole and/or a rope to pull the branch toward me, so it get cut by hand.

"... work that I consider a bit hazardous since I would pendulum swing back to my TIP - or get stuck - if the sprouts broke off.

Lanyard or TIP2 not possible? Anyway maybe the sprouts are a lot stronger than you give them credit for? Pics would be useful here...
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Yeah, I did not take very good pics. This one is an interior lop with only one or two sprouts. Pretty much what the others looked like except on the outer canopy over the house X5...

I hear what you are saying about the sprouts maybe being better attached than I give them credit for. Maybe that is my issue, lol, and I'm fine with that. I didn't climb dead pines until year three. The other pics show more sprouting after hacking - this stuff is easy to deal with but shows, well, the usual 5th-year-ish sized resprouts. Then, the low acute crotch with a muck hole longer than my fat hand, and a cool greenfly orchid/resurrection fern bouquet found just above the low crotch.
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Yeah, you did take very good pics!.
This one is an interior lop with only one or two sprouts. Pretty much what the others looked like except on the outer canopy over the house X5...
I hear what you are saying about the sprouts maybe being better attached than I give them credit for. Maybe that is my issue, lol, and I'm fine with that.

And maybe you'd be more fine with better access and mobility!

The other pics show more sprouting after hacking - this stuff is easy to deal with

Lots easier with pole tools. https://www.amazon.com/Garten-Vario-Extending-Handle-3943704/dp/B000HCX2LK is the bomb.

but shows, well, the usual 5th-year-ish sized resprouts. Then, the low acute crotch with a muck hole longer than my fat hand,

what is done with that? Cleaning at a minimum right? to understand the weakness.

and a cool greenfly orchid/resurrection fern bouquet found just above the low crotch.

Lovely! Once a golf course client paid someone to scrape off the resurrection fern. That really stressed out the tree for a while until it grew back.
 
guymayor said:
Yeah, you did take very good pics!.
This one is an interior lop with only one or two sprouts. Pretty much what the others looked like except on the outer canopy over the house X5...
I hear what you are saying about the sprouts maybe being better attached than I give them credit for. Maybe that is my issue, lol, and I'm fine with that.

And maybe you'd be more fine with better access and mobility!

The other pics show more sprouting after hacking - this stuff is easy to deal with

Lots easier with pole tools. https://www.amazon.com/Garten-Vario-Extending-Handle-3943704/dp/B000HCX2LK is the bomb.

but shows, well, the usual 5th-year-ish sized resprouts. Then, the low acute crotch with a muck hole longer than my fat hand,

what is done with that? Cleaning at a minimum right? to understand the weakness.

and a cool greenfly orchid/resurrection fern bouquet found just above the low crotch.

Lovely! Once a golf course client paid someone to scrape off the resurrection fern. That really stressed out the tree for a while until it grew back.
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@guymayor Are you able to comment about the Wolfe system vs. the short Silky pole saws and/or the ARS long reach lopers?

I scooped out what I could from the hole. I did not have a probe at the time and needed to clean up, so that will be for the next trip. I don't have a plan to completely clean the hole. If you or anyone knows an efficient way to do that I'm sure I could bill for it. Seems like a water hose and vacuum kind of task...

What do folks think about installing a French drain after I've got it clean? Drill a hole down through the trunk from the bottom of the cavity and stick a pipe up into the cavity to just below the top. Perforate the section that will be in the cavity... Not sure how to aesthetically hide the exposed end of the pipe, lol... Maybe bury it in a staghorn fern, or use decorative copper/aluminum piping, install a bend, and hang something on it...

I'll try to wrap this up since it diverged from the OP.
 
O no sorry; 'clean' to me just means scraping off the gunk to see the attachment. Flushing holes out with a garden hose is something I've done before, but lately I haven't seen a reason to. The depth is not nearly as important to know as the width. And drilling and draining; definitely not any reason I can see to do that wounding.

re poles, wolf-garten is lighter than silky, and easier to swap heads. The ARS loppers with the internal mechanism is smooth but lacks MA to take on woody stuff. Wolf-garten pulleys give it great MA; 4:1? 6:1?

For long reaches, once you've gone black (carbon fiber), you'll never go back!
 
guymayor said:
Hose is easy to pull up--tie it to the tail, like any tool.

Coffee whaa?
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@JD3000 was posting a little too much on the beer beer beer thread, so I started the coffee coffee coffee thread to leach his burgeoning traffic. Worked like a charm, but now he's a bit vindictive... :birras:
 
Ha, I'd be happy to see more replies addressing the OP, but I'm not sure what is being bumped here! I'll be at TCI...I think I'm presenting on Friday AM, but I better check!
 
75 minutes! Glad to see that you get enough time to effectively highlight the need for investigating the tree, instead of speculating on "defects", bugs, and crud.
 
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