guying a big doug fir

T

Thillmaine

Location
Southern Dutchess NY
I have a client that has a 35'ish tall douglas fir that uprooted. She wants to save it. The roots in the uprooted side are still in the ground, on the back they are broken and or dislodged. Its a pretty big tree to stand up and keep up. Im thinking skidsteer, rope lots of padding on the trunk to protect cambium. Once its up, duckbill earth anchors, 3 of them will hold it up. My question it more about what to use against or through the trunk. I was thinking eye bolts to attach the cable to. I know standard practice is a loop of cable that has padding etc, but with this situation there will be lots of force on that small loop and my concern disrupting the cambium. Think I would be better drilling a few holes, putting in a few eyebolts and going that route? Cables would be a permanenet fixture to keep this tree vertical.
 
I would go with either eye bolts or J lags. You may want to think of doubling up on the duckbills at each of the 3 eye bolt points, a 35' Doug can put a lot on anchor with just a little bit of wind. Good luck.
 
Would a non invasive cabling system to the duck bills work here? Just thinking once it reestablishes a good root structure, the cables could be removed with hopefully no harm done.

When I have brought back over up-rooted trees, I've brought them past center and let it settle back to vertical again and it usually helps it from wanting to fall right back where it was so that your bracing isn't putting so much pressure on the cambium, it's almost like your steaking in a new planting. That being said we typically use J-lags or eye bolts depending on species/size.
 
Some cobra cable (or equivalent) holding the whole main stem may be a more solid choice.

Between eye bolts and J legs I go for through bolts with big washers on the back every time. Old Oak Man do you have good luck with J legs? I've seen a couple get ripped out in a big storm mind you but still.

Another option I've personally never worked with only done limited readings is, 'TreeSave' it's dynamic, shock absorbing and gives you the invasive eye bolt option as well as the non invasive whole stem holding option so you aren't limiting your options with your tools mix and match to suit your needs. Maybe someone that has used this stuff could give an opinion on it.

Get some pics and let us know how it goes. If the tree is down on its side already do your pruning before you put it back up.
 
The invasive/noninvasive dichotomy needs rethinking re cobra etc. Compression may not literally be invasive, but it is damaging, and it's anything but 'solid'. Using dynamic material that needs readjusting does not seem to fit a long term/permanent support system.
Agree w Kevin about J lags, another solution that does not fit the problem. Of course we're limited here w no pics.
 
Kevin: J-lags would be my last choice in this case and it would depend on the diameter of the trunk at the installation height. Installation would have to be in line with the angle of the guy cable , and there just might not be enough thread to bite. On the plus side, J-lags would create the smallest column of discoloration. Through eye bolts would definitely hold the strongest, but using big washers immediately against the wood will create huge discoloration columns and remember, we will be creating at least three of those. My personal standard, (and Guy M. may weigh in on this too) is to place the first nut snuggly, not tight, against the bark, then a big washer with a second nut to lock it all down. I have several friends that are staff arborists at a major university that have installed cable in this manner for decades and have had the luxury of being able to disect their work when the trees have had to be removed. They find much smaller columns, better compartmentalization and incredibly strong wall 4.
 
Old oak that's a cool approach I've never thought about that thanks.

Guy if you splice a large fixed eye non adjustable around the tree. It would be non invasive but static at the same time. Just a thought.
 
oldoakman said:
My personal standard, (and Guy M. may weigh in on this too) is to place the first nut snuggly, not tight, against the bark, then a big washer with a second nut to lock it all down.
Click to expand...
Sure I'll weigh in--sounds brilliant! I don't think it complies with A300, which seldom changes due to heavy resistance by dominant interests to any change, and near-zero input by practitioners. :mad:

My own preference is to through-cable (much smaller hole) and use swages as fasteners. These held up to 4 kN in the March 2011 AUF research, which can't be attached here due to wimpy size capabilities. :rolleyes:

"if you splice a large fixed eye non adjustable around the tree." I have no idea what this means but if it compresses the bark it might not be the way to go.
 
X2 on the through cable. The rigging guy wire stops have worked for me in the past. Not sure j lags would be strong enough in this situation. Since this is supposed to be a long term solution maybe two fixed anchors(concrete) in the ground might give you better holding power. Haven't seen the tree so just guessing. Cool stuff old oak, never considered what washers might do.
 
Been there. 75' white pine.
When guying something that big you have to think of it more of a transmittion tower and less of a tree.
Yes, through bolts and washers but there's more hardware requirements that should be taken into account.
Pm me if you want to talk.
 
I love the Rig Guy Wire Stops! I like how secure they are while avoiding the compression on the cambium that other options introduce. They would have to pull through the entire tree to "pull out".

Here is a picture I quoted from another thread showing the wire stop after 6 years:
guymayor said:
384184-through-cabling2.jpg
This dissection 6 years after install, courtesy of the Tree Machine of Indy fame.
Click to expand...
 
Oh, and wouldn't it need to be a permanent thing? How successful have you all been with removing supports after the tree has "reestablished" itself? I thought I read somewhere that trees have little hope of standing un-aided after an uprooting, but I could be showing my ignorance here. I am asking because I am interested in the answer, not trying to tell anyone what's what. I don't have much experience in guying trees...I leave that to, well... Guy! But I do like Rig Guys for cable bracing!
 
Permanent yes. In my case all parts of the guy system is replaceable and/or adjustable on a 10 year cycle or as needed. 1/2" cable, clips, turnbuckles, rock anchors. Something I almost overlooked was the need for lightning protection after installing all that steel 2/3 up the tree.
 
Just to add douglas firs deal pretty darn well with though bolts. I have dissected all sorts of them from hardware, topped trees, or calloused over root grafted stumps. What is the diameter of the stem where the drilling would be done? A big washer isn't that bad on a 18" stem compared to a 8"....
 
No dougfirs here but a 35' pine here would be ~4" at a guying point, hence the swage suggestion. Without a pic...JK despite my name I have not guyed all that many trees, and none like Phil's 75'/90' pine; who's counting but great looking work!...
 
No standard in regards to ansi, osha, etc. BUt more of a tried and true method on smaller trees, non-uprooted. I went with thru bolts duckbills and the nut,washer,nut method. Used two trucks, a block in a nearby tree for a high lift point. Got it to stand up with a decent amount of resistance. Other surrounding doug firs were partially uprooted as well, there was an inch plus gap around trunks at the root flare, between mulch and trunk. Im thinking from movement in the wind and deep planting. Didn't want to pull on the lift tree too much. We're getting nasty storms today. THis will be the test.
 
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