Fu*%face Von Clownstick

evo

Well-Known Member
Location
My Island, WA
You do know Obama built the infamous cages, which were used long before Trump, right?

And yes, school is safe. Kids tend to have a relatively small viral load, for reasons not yet understood. This makes them less dangerous to adults who might be vulnerable.

This from the American Academy of Pediatrics:
View attachment 69113
I never said I supported Obama. I’m sure as hell not a republican but certainly not a democrat either.
 

Bucknut

Well-Known Member
Can you expand on that?
Not sure what you mean. The data since Feb. 1 shows that children 15 and under are more than 3 times more likely to die from the flu than they are from COVID. They are also less likely to spread the virus than adults.

Considering this, and weighing the risk of attending school vs the known risks of staying home, the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends school attendance this fall.

Maybe more of a summary than an expansion.

Cut from the same cloth as the arguement that if you cant stop ALL gun violence then we shouldnt bother to try and prevent any. After all people die in car accidents and die slipping on soap in the shower and we dont outlaw cars and soap so why attempt to prevent any gun deaths. When did surpassing flu deaths become the standard for anything.
So you proudly stand in the "outlaw cars and soap" camp? Because, after all, it will save a few lives. That's the sort of authoritarian logic we see with the COVID response. "SHUT IT DOWN! Who cares about the millions of lives destroyed irreparably by the lockdowns? We're saving lives here, people!"

Calculate the bankruptcy to death ratio, or the unemployed to death ratio. How many healthy, happy families need to be ruined to save very few mostly old, sick people from dying? That's all we really disagree on.

If you want to call me heartless that's fine. If you feel morally superior to me now, great. But we didn't have to decimate our economy and generations of human and industrial capital for a disease with a 99.5% survival rate. For sure China can f*** right off, but we've done as much damage to ourselves.
 

rico

Well-Known Member
Location
redwoods
Go look at most of the developed worlds response to Covid Buck. What the fuck happened here in America? Why so many deaths? Are they just smarter than us..Are they just tougher and willing to do what is needed? Do they have better health care systems than us. Or is it simply the fact that they don't have an dangerously inept sociopath setting policy during a deadly pandemic?

This administrations policy concerning Covid now seems to be akin to trying to live in a house that is currently on fire....

And just so you know the medical community currently has no conclusive evidence as to whether children spread Covid at lesser, equal, or greater rates than adults....Without real proof it could be yet another mistake that ends up costing many Americans their lives. Since my wife is a teacher I myself would like some conclusive science on the matter before she goes back to business as usual.....
 
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Bucknut

Well-Known Member
Since my wife is a teacher I myself would like some conclusive science on the matter before she goes back to business as usual.....
I hear ya. Understandable.

I'm not trying to offend you here, but I just about guarantee your opinion would be different if your wife's paycheck depended on her working. It does for most people. If your current life/lifestyle was simply not possible to maintain without work, you'd be amazed how your risk tolerance changes.

As far as that chart goes, I'm more interested in deaths, not hospitalizations. And ages of those who die. And how many of those had underlying morbidity.
 

owScott

Well-Known Member
Location
Lafayette
Not sure what you mean. The data since Feb. 1 shows that children 15 and under are more than 3 times more likely to die from the flu than they are from COVID. They are also less likely to spread the virus than adults.

Considering this, and weighing the risk of attending school vs the known risks of staying home, the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends school attendance this fall.

Maybe more of a summary than an expansion.


So you proudly stand in the "outlaw cars and soap" camp? Because, after all, it will save a few lives. That's the sort of authoritarian logic we see with the COVID response. "SHUT IT DOWN! Who cares about the millions of lives destroyed irreparably by the lockdowns? We're saving lives here, people!"

Calculate the bankruptcy to death ratio, or the unemployed to death ratio. How many healthy, happy families need to be ruined to save very few mostly old, sick people from dying? That's all we really disagree on.

If you want to call me heartless that's fine. If you feel morally superior to me now, great. But we didn't have to decimate our economy and generations of human and industrial capital for a disease with a 99.5% survival rate. For sure China can f*** right off, but we've done as much damage to ourselves.
So Buck, slow up a moment. You just said a bunch that i didnt even say. Never accused you of anything. Just using an analagy to illustrate this all or nothing attitude. Outlaw cars and soap was no where in my post. You missed my point.
 

cerviarborist

Very stable member
Location
Florida, USA
In one of his podcasts, Dr. Michael Osterholm likened reopening too early to "Repairing three square feet of the twelve square foot hole the iceberg made in the hull of the Titanic, and then declaring the ship "seaworthy"."
 

rico

Well-Known Member
Location
redwoods
New flash Buck. Remote teaching/learning is harder and more work for the teacher than in class teaching...And if you had a clue what you were talking about you would know that a good teacher doesn't have weekends off, or a summer vacation...Nope. Some of the hardest working, under paid people on the planet... Fucking hero's in my book.....
 

Bucknut

Well-Known Member
New flash Buck. Remote teaching/learning is harder and more work for the teacher than in class teaching...And if you had a clue what you were talking about you would know that a good teacher doesn't have weekends off, or a summer vacation...Nope. Some of the hardest working, under paid people on the planet... Fucking hero's in my book.....
Agree, remote teaching sucks. Hard for the teacher, kids don’t learn shit, if they even log in.

As you know, I have several family members and friends who are teachers. (As do most of us I suppose). They definitely get summers off.

Anyhoo, my point stands. If your mortgage depended on your wife working you’d be lobbying for kids in school this fall. Because deep down you know she (and they) will be just fine.
 

evo

Well-Known Member
Location
My Island, WA
I hear ya. Understandable.

I'm not trying to offend you here, but I just about guarantee your opinion would be different if your wife's paycheck depended on her working. It does for most people. If your current life/lifestyle was simply not possible to maintain without work, you'd be amazed how your risk tolerance changes.

As far as that chart goes, I'm more interested in deaths, not hospitalizations. And ages of those who die. And how many of those had underlying morbidity.
My 72 year old mother is a substitute teacher (middle school-high). She has a genetic disability as well as a brain tumor.
Her unemployment was cut off 10 weeks ago, and is looking at a reverse mortgage. She has no retirement and no savings.
Fuck opening the schools, I can’t even see how this is even a option.
 

Bucknut

Well-Known Member
Not personal, BTW. Millions of parents find themselves in a similar position. By which I mean that they will need to either pay for child care or stay home to watch their kids. Neither of which helps pay the mortgage. Cowering in fear is unsustainable.
 

Burrapeg

Well-Known Member
Location
Puget Sound
. . . How many healthy, happy families need to be ruined to save very few mostly old, sick people from dying? . .
A few? You mean the 120,000-plus and rising? And almost one thousand doctors and nurses in the US dead so far? It's high time these healthy, happy families of yours learn to live in the real World. A World where people know how to be more self-sufficient and don't finance everything their hearts' desire. Their new SUV, four bedroom brick house, and bass boat note is not worth my grand parents' lives.
 
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evo

Well-Known Member
Location
My Island, WA
Not personal, BTW. Millions of parents find themselves in a similar position. By which I mean that they will need to either pay for child care or stay home to watch their kids. Neither of which helps pay the mortgage. Cowering in fear is unsustainable.
I agree cowering in fear is unsustainable, but sonis sacrificing my mom. The system is broken, and the current administration is doing little more than pouring sand in the gears.
Trump is sugar in the tank, Biden is sand in the gears.. neither choice is sustainable, but one will blow the engine..
 

Bucknut

Well-Known Member
Excellent analogy. Gotta say though, last time we shredded the diff in our bucket truck it cost $6,000!
 

owScott

Well-Known Member
Location
Lafayette
I hear ya. Understandable.

I'm not trying to offend you here, but I just about guarantee your opinion would be different if your wife's paycheck depended on her working. It does for most people. If your current life/lifestyle was simply not possible to maintain without work, you'd be amazed how your risk tolerance changes.

As far as that chart goes, I'm more interested in deaths, not hospitalizations. And ages of those who die. And how many of those had underlying morbidity.
New flash Buck. Remote teaching/learning is harder and more work for the teacher than in class teaching...And if you had a clue what you were talking about you would know that a good teacher doesn't have weekends off, or a summer vacation...Nope. Some of the hardest working, under paid people on the planet... Fucking hero's in my book.....
WORD wife is 5th grade teacher, have a 3 year old who needs preschool. Like you fellas i work for my money have bills and employees, mother who lives with me and people who depend on me. This isnt some distant conversation piece.
 

Burrapeg

Well-Known Member
Location
Puget Sound
. . . This isnt some distant conversation piece.
Yeah, it starts to hit close to home. My best friend growing up just called me last night from Texas. His divorced adult daughter lives with them at home and brought the shit home to the whole family from her night-clubbing. He is scared to death since he has some heart issues and diabetes.
 

JeffGu

Well-Known Member
Covid-19 is more like getting shot than it is like catching influenza. The people coming out of hospitalization are often leaving with permanent damage to the lungs, heart, liver and other organs. Some of them have months of physical therapy and/or respiratory therapy ahead of them. The ones put into an induced coma and ventilated are in for long term issues, probably for the rest of their lives.

The odds of dying from skydiving are only .0007% but about 20 people manage to die from it each year, anyway. As the saying goes, if both chutes fail... you have the rest of your life to fix it. Personally, I can't think of a single good reason to jump out of a perfectly good airplane, but to each their own.

You people who aren't worried should change your last will and testament and leave all your shit to me. I mean, it's not like you'll actually die and I'll sell all your stuff on ebay, right?
 

rico

Well-Known Member
Location
redwoods
So Donny went on a bit of a twitter tyraid concerning the opening of our schools in the fall. He cited a few Northern European countries as example of places that have opened their schools. OK then?

He then goes on to excoriate his own CDC's new guidelines for being too stringent..Does this fucking idiot realize that the CDC's guidelines basically mirror the guidelines that these very northern European countries used as a boss for opening their schools?

As is typical, stupid little baby-hands threatened to "defund" schools, if he didn't get his way, and schools decided not to open in the fall..Does this fucking idiot realize he can't unilaterally defund schools?
 
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southsoundtree

Well-Known Member
Location
Olympia, WA
So strange that he acts like a spoiled 6-year-old.

How could he have ever gotten that way?

So strange.


So strange he doesn't seem to understand how government works.

So strange how we don't have strict, ongoing psychological and health evaluations for the president, not by doctors under the president's thumb.
Especially with the geezers we've had.


Didn't someone have dementia who was supposed to be there most powerful person in the world. Can't recollect whom.
 

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