friction savers vers rope guides?

T

treekiwi

Location
Auckland,New Zealand
hi guys,
i have heard many people with varied opinions about these two devices and looking for some feedback. I have used a few different friction savers such as buckingham type and edilrid types. Over all i think the buckingham type savers are a little two beefed up for their use and are quite stiff and bulky compared to other brands such as some european made ones. As for a rope guide, they seem to be very costly for what they are although they are adjustable and quite light. The pully does save alot of friction but isnt there a cheaper option? a co-worker of mine as developed a adjustable design with an eyespliced piece of bluestreak and the ring on the prisik and pully on the eyespliced end. Currently i am using a carabiner with a petzl pully and rated strop,just looking for new ideas to help with the old age problem of friction.
treekiwi /forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
I have a rope guide and use it everyday, I also have one I made, but seldom use it. The RG works sooo much better.
 

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Here's a pic of the Treesbee. It's about $40.
karst_1859_4605530.jpg
 
Interesting. I think someone posted a picture several months of a setup they made, which looked just like that. I'll have to see if I can find the pic.

Would the 'Treesbee' be ANSI approved , since it has a scew link? I thought that screw links were a no-no.

Thanks,
Jim
 
Just my opinion here on the Treesbee, I tried one and did not like it. The strap is not that wide, isn't as firm and stable as the Buckingham style, it can get twisted when trying to install from the ground, The ring is way to large and heavy. I used several different kinds of climbing pulleys on the screw link, the result was the same, the ring was so large that any pulley I had would get in a sideways pull and not feed a rope straight, adding to the friction problem that it was meant to solve.

I never had a spare ring to mate with the larger ring to see how it would work with that type of set-up. The larger ring can be a pain to get out of a crotch.

I am not tying to knock the tool. I just haven't had a good experience with it is all, could have spent that forty bucks for something else that I would have gotten more use out of.

I have always had a preferance for the friction savers that were of made up along the lines of using rope. I don't have a RG but made one similar to it and really like it. Some day I'll buy the real thing.

Larry
 
Having tried both ringed friction savers and the
Rope-guide, I have to recommend the Rope-guide.
It costs more than other friction savers, but
if you're doing this full time, it shouldn't be more
than 1/3 days income, or something like that.
It probably will last you a couple of years,
and most parts are replaceable.
It is quite excellent on removals as well (we put
a carabiner in the ring for convenience and use
the carabiner in place of the ring).
If for example you have an accident standing on the
spar on your spikes, it a lot faster and easier
to get you to the ground if the rope-guide is already
choked around the spar and your climbing line runs
through it.

Regards / Oskar
 
I have a question for those that own a Rope Guide. Is it built sturdy enough that when it is flipped out of a tree it won't get damaged getting smacked on a large limb on the way down or if it was to hit a hard surface like concrete.

I used to use a biner, pulley combo for a friction saver, till I flipped it out of a tree and landed right on a concrete patio. Not good, switched back to the simpler two ring rope style, less chance of damaging more expensive gear and cheaper to replace.

I hope I don't take any heat for this, but here is a few of the things I have played with the last few years. the two cords on the left are spliced Tennex, the links and rings change over. The one on the right is a spliced split tail with an Ultra Tech cord, tie a stopper knot ahead of the prusik, tried this combo to see how I would like the manufactured version using the prusik as an adjuster.

Larry
 

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[ QUOTE ]
it shouldn't be more
than 1/3 days income, or something like that.

Regards / Oskar

[/ QUOTE ]

WOW! either the RG is much cheaper over there or you get paid much better. /forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif When I was younger I considered moving to Sweden, maybe I should consider it again. It is where my Grandfather is from so I have the right last name.
 
Treespotter, Wolter

Yes, definately, I put that in my post, when I first tried this I tied a stopper right in front of the prusik. I have even tied a stopper farther down the tail to see if the prusik would migrate to the knot, so far it hasn't, but I am not going to take a chance, I feel more comfortable with a knot in front of the prusik.

The Rope Guide with the mechanical adjuster is a little much for me to buy at this time, the non mechanical version that Sherrill sells is what I am going to get soon. I just wanted to try a friction saver that was adjustable with a prusik before spending money on a manufactured one. I wish I had a clevis pulley combo small enough to slip through a ring to simulate the manufactured version and see how hard or easy it would be to get out of tree. Based on what others have reported, they have not had problems with the Prusik -adjust version that Sherrill sells getting stuck trying to retrieve it.

Larry
 
hi guys, thanks for the input, i too have had the same problem as axman the other day during retrieval and actually popped the spring right out of the carabiner, which also make me wanna change from the ball locking carabiner, it was only probably 8-10 metres up and got caught on the way down and the force of hitting the concrete completely destroyed the carabiner, plastic bal-lock gates for ya.
As for homemade friction savers, a co worker has created a similar design but instead of screw lock steel gates he has put a rope guide type pully on the spliced end and used 2 fishermans knots on the prusic so her can secure the ring, i think he is also thinking of getting a ring splcied into the prussic which cuts down alot of weight, still developing and yet 2 trial with spliced rings, has anyone had any luck with this type of design?
treekiwi
 
Eric, the Rope-guide costs about the same over here ~$170.
I think we try to charge around $450 per man-day plus vat,
including equipment and vehicles. Just for comparsion,
my salary after all expenses and taxes is rougly $80 per day and a gallon of petrol is around $6.
But a thing like the rope-guide is deductable, at least
here. Still, let me know if you're planning on visiting Sweden!
As for the durability of frictionsavers. It's not good
practice to let them hit rock, concrete or pavement.
Falling on branches and grass and occasionally asphalt,
has never hurt my rope-guide much. Often times you can catch
it coming out of the tree or you can clip your footlock-line
on to your climbing-line and catch it that way.
Sorry if I'm pushing for the rope-guide too much,
I just don't think that an adjustable ball-bearing pulley
with shock-absorber and lightweight material compares to
a heavy nylon strap with a iron ring in each end. /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Regards / Oskar
 
Biners are not meant to survive dropping that far onto rocks and concrete. It's not a good measure of gear durability. If you choose to use the steel ring on ring FC for durability you still need to do close inspections every time that you hit rocks or concrete. You might not break the ring but you still can put nicks in them. I would never allow my gear to take that abuse.

I took some sewn one inch nylon runners, about 3'long and made my own FC. I sewed them into flat webbing loops by making tight eyes on each end for the biner and screw link. Then I ran a row of stitching up both edges to make the whole thing flat.

My stitching has nothing to do with strength. All I did was make a loop runner into an eye on eye flat runner. There are 5/8" Spectra runners that are even stronger and lighter, just a little more expensive.
 
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