friction savers vers rope guides?

What I have been doing in the past couple of weeks is this.

I took my big buckingham frictionsaver, then I put the A.R.T. pulley (60$) on that using a prussic.

I found that the big webbing made it a better rope guide. when on regular rope, I had it on a 16 stand, the rope and prussic would bend and try to cram itself through the aluminium ring, then removal was made very difficult. The big strap solved that problem for me.

whats also cool about it is that it can be both ring type friction saver and a rope guide. I can set it from the ground, work the tree, and then when I find myself next to the set up, I can switch it over to the rope guide application. less friction.

Working spars it works great too but it is a little short to go all the way around the bigger wood. Then I just take the ART pulley off the strap and put it on a longer rope with a ring or even a carabiner at the end is great.

I have also found that when setting the rope guide on a spar, If I put a carabiner on the big ring and put the pulley through that, I don't have any trouble pulling it out. This is because the caribiner changes the angle and does not pinch the ART pulley against the tree when you try to remove it.

That is really why the rope guide is awesome, because you can set it on a spar where there is no crotch.

As far as nailing it against the ground, when over concrete or other nasty surfaces. I like to Take it out before I hit the ground and decend in two stages. this is helpful too because it leaves you in the tree in case anything gets stuck. And that happens in this work occasionally.
 
hi guys.
i finally got myself a rope guide a few weeks ago and am not thrilled. i like working on the pulley, i have to say. i made my own mongrel cambium saver a few years ago - had new tribe make me one of theirs w/no rings, just loops for the rings. i put biners on both ends, one with a pulley on it, and ran the rope through one ring and the pulley. worked great, less friction etc, but was so much sketchier to retrieve from the ground i went back to the old buckingham. the problem i have with the rope guide so far (granted i haven't given it much of a chance yet) is this: 2 out of the 3 times i tried to retrieve it from the ground with a throwline - to avoid slamming my gear into the ground - it got stuck. i use zing it, and both times the throwline jumped off the pulley and jammed between the pulley and the cheek plates. totally stuck - as in had to climb the tree 3 times instead of once.

anyone else retrieve a rope guide with throwline? zing it or something else? had this problem? i guess i could just get a fatter throwline. what's the use of a piece of gear this pricey that you can't retrieve gently from the ground?

any input appreciated...
k.
 
Kathy,

When I use my RG I have three plans.

1-Move the RG down the tree as I work lower. As I work down I find a lower TIP that is clear straight to the ground so that nothing hangs up when I pull the rope out
2-Use the high TIP and make sure that my rope goes straight down with no weaving. When the rope is pulled there is no jerking, just a gently tug. This keeps the RG from turning into a bollo and whipping around a limb.
3-Tie a throwline onto the big ring and toss the TL out of the tree. When it's time to clear the RG I hold the TL and pull my rope up. Then I use the TL to lower the RG.

Most of the time I trust my [good] luck and plan a clear shot to the ground.
 
I often retrieve it like Tom does. I also often attach it to my ascending line.
 

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Hé guys, why do you all still use the way-to-expensive-to-much-hardware-that-gets-stuck-in-the-tree Rope guide. There is only one usefull thing on that one and thats the pulley. Bought that one to make me my own friction saver with less hardware (one alloy ring and the ART pulley).
It doesn't get stuck that much and you can catch it in the fall without worry's of breaking your fingers.
 
Kathy;

Another way to retreive the RG is to toss a throwline into the tree anywhere near the RG. Tie the throwline to the fall of the climbing line (the end without the eye) with a somewhat loose loop knot. Pull the throwline up the climbing line, then pull the lead of the climbing line (the end with the eye and the retreival ball) up so that it pulls out the RG. The throwline will prevent the RG from crashing to the ground.
 
wow. i am such the rookie still. i don't even understand half the excellent feedback from 3 progressive climbers..

mark: i set the rope guide in the tree by hand, just as i would a 2 ring cambium saver and (apparently mistakenly) assumed it could be retrieved the same way too. ie descend to the ground, tie the little ball and my zing it to the eye of my climbing line and send it gently up. didn't work for me. not sure what you mean by tying it in the tree and tossing it down to use later. same thing tom and todd apparently do?

tom: i always shoot for that open unobstructed path to the extent it's possible, as much for climbing options as cambium saver retrieval. my experience hasn't been the rope guide wrapping around anything, it's the zing it fouling the pulley before it feeds all the way through. i'll have to go get the damn thing out of my truck to understand your method of tying the throwline to the big ring - it's still a new toy so i don't quite get it yet. doesn't the throwline get fouled with brush and everything as you work? or is that more for rec climbing?

tod: thanks for the pic. you've got a lot of ropes goin on there - so far i've just been climbing the old fashioned one-rope way, though my next experimenting will involve some access line tricks. any tricks for retrieving this lovely w/o bringing other lines/throwlines into the tree?

treespotter: well, i bought the thing so i figure on using it if i can. too late this thread hits the waves!!

thanks for all the feedback you guys. anyone else?
k.
 
Can someone help me here??

Who makes the pulley that is pictured in this false crotch??

How much does it cost and a link to where I can purchase it.

I have gotten the cheaper version of the Rope Guide and tried it four climbs, am somewhat disappointed with it, the clevis pulley combo with this tool doesn't always track straight with the rope.

The actual Rope Guide is just too much buckos for the use I would get out of it, so I am going to try and make something similar to the false crotch pictured, see if this works out.

My apologies to the person's picture I swiped and reposted,and not giving credit to them. I thought it was in this current thread, it must be in another thread, I was doing a search on the subject and transfered the pic over to My Photo's, awhile back

Thanks

Larry
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Who makes the pulley that is pictured in this false crotch??

[/ QUOTE ]

The block is the one that comes with the new version of the RG. The block is available from Greg Good (although you will have to get in line) and perhaps from Sherrill.

[ QUOTE ]
My apologies to the person's picture I swiped and reposted,and not giving credit to them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that that pic is Tree Spotter's (??) and the home made RG that is shown in your attachment is the RG he refers to in the post above. He has described/posted his RG in other threads.
 
[ QUOTE ]
hi guys,
... Over all i think the buckingham type savers are a little two beefed up for their use and are quite stiff and bulky compared to other brands such as some european made ones. ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Of all the RING/ring friction savers, I think the buckingham is by far the BEST for the reason you described. Thick rings stand up to the abuse of constantly being yanked out of trees and they provide a wider bend radius for the rope. The beefy straps are good because they don't "Indiana Jones" around a branch during retrieval.

For a while, I was using tiny 5/16 flat spectra webbing and it was getting stuck A LOT. I soon realized that the weight of the ring on the end thin cordage allowed the friction saver to just whip around a branch while it was bouncing down. Since then, I only make friction saver out of at LEAST 1/2" rope, or I'll use a very stiff double braid if it's made of a smaller rope than that.

love
nick
 
It's the ART pulley as used in the Rope Guide. In Europe we can buy the items seperate. Don't know if you can buy it as a seperate item in the States. This pulley is small enough to fit thru the big alloy ring.

Don't forget to put a 3 inch shrink wrap right in front of the pulley. This makes it come out of the tree better. And make sure that when you install the gadget that the "tail" with the pulley is at least about 12 inches thru the ring. This way it pulls better (in a nice straight line) out of the tree.

Any picture I posted is yours :-)
 
I got a quote from sherrill on that ART pulley: around $160
The large clevis with pulley cost me $40. Your right, it doesn't always track properly. /forum/images/graemlins/furious3.gif
 
Greg Good is the man, but like Mahk said you'll have to get in line. I picked up a ART mini Block from him at the ITCC, thanks again Greg. I use it for my FFC SRT set up, and because I won't splice in a manner that dedicates a piece of hardware to one task, it is removable from the prussic for use with a rope based RG. I have one of the 1st generation RG's and I love it, I havn't had much of a problem with off track issues.
 
I'm sure I bought that pulley from Greg Good for only $60. I think the sherrill price you were quoted may be for the full kit (including the ART adjuster, rope, etc).

love
nick
 
roger, is the large clevis you're talking about the old ART one, or the sherrill one? I made my own and it fell off the sheave all the time. When I got the real ART one, it NEVER comes off track.

love
nick
 
[ QUOTE ]
I got a quote from sherrill on that ART pulley: around $160

[/ QUOTE ]WOW Roger, I think Nick is right. That must be a complete set price.
If this is the price for only the pulley..... the guys at Sherrill want to get very rich very soon, or they want to lose customers.
 
I wish I could remember the name of the salesman...When he went to quote me, he asked if I was sittting down?! He gave me the explanation of "shipping it in from out of country"
maybe its a roll of the dice with those guys. via the phone, with 2005 sherrill mag in hand, thats what he said. I would gladly give up $60 .
NIck, Its the clevis from the cheaper sherrill version of the rope guide. I stand corrected, with my slow and low experimentation it didn't seem to track the climbing line very well, I use a "fly". Once I put my full weight and stetched out a limb a bit, I was happy.
 
I bet they just heard rope guide and gave you the price for the whole set up. Call again, or just call greg good.

I used my own setup for about 2 weeks, then I ditched it for the real thing after the rope kept getting off track. You get what you pay for, I guess (unless you paid $160 for just the art pulley!)

love
nick
 
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