- Location
- Sunshine State
Hope you heal up quickly.
freak accident today.. rope through chipper
- Thread starter Daniel
- Start date
- Location
- BC, Canada
[ QUOTE ]
In this case three or four things could have been done differently, but the only real "mistake" was me not putting on a pair of boots this AM..
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking that if you had not fed the rope into the chipper, you coulda been fine wearing a pair of flip-flops.
djm has this right, Daniel, you're (dis)missing the obvious things gone wrong.
Kudos for posting this, knowing you are a fair target, and hope your chipper will be OK.
Oh right, your foot too.
Northwind
In this case three or four things could have been done differently, but the only real "mistake" was me not putting on a pair of boots this AM..
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking that if you had not fed the rope into the chipper, you coulda been fine wearing a pair of flip-flops.
djm has this right, Daniel, you're (dis)missing the obvious things gone wrong.
Kudos for posting this, knowing you are a fair target, and hope your chipper will be OK.
Oh right, your foot too.
Northwind
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
I always debrief and try to learn whatever I can from anything that unexpected.. it doesn't even have to cause harm..
I threw the sticks in the chipper that brought the rope in.. So obviously I wasn't watching them.. BUT if you had seen the size of them, you'd never believe they were big enough to snag a rope without being able to "feel" the weight and drag of the rope.. I still can't believe it. We had just chipped a 20-25' limb, with the rope well out of the way.. The limbs I grabbed were further away than that, and I walked them back to the chipper, with rope in tow..
So on some level I wasn't paying attention... the guy that was flaking the rope wasn't paying attention, BUT I still do not consider that "mistakes" as in the kind of mistakes that you could learn something from.. You'd have to see the limbs.. they were little more than twigs.. it was just freaky.
I had heard stories of ropes getting chipped before, BUT NEVER really understood the implications.. the rope doesn't move at the speed of the in-feed rollers, it moves at the speed of the drum (or disc), which is estimated at 120 MPH, with nearly unstoppable amount of force.. It would cut you in half!
God forbid a climbing line would get grabbed...
SO I post this so that you, my fellow tree brethren, might understand the DANGER of this potential, in case you, (like I previously had), do not understand the speed and force of a chipped line! I posted it becasue maybe this thread is gonna save a life. ITS A SERIOUSLY DANGEROUS SITUATION!
So keep your petty little bullsht comments to yourself. That is not what this forum is for!
I threw the sticks in the chipper that brought the rope in.. So obviously I wasn't watching them.. BUT if you had seen the size of them, you'd never believe they were big enough to snag a rope without being able to "feel" the weight and drag of the rope.. I still can't believe it. We had just chipped a 20-25' limb, with the rope well out of the way.. The limbs I grabbed were further away than that, and I walked them back to the chipper, with rope in tow..
So on some level I wasn't paying attention... the guy that was flaking the rope wasn't paying attention, BUT I still do not consider that "mistakes" as in the kind of mistakes that you could learn something from.. You'd have to see the limbs.. they were little more than twigs.. it was just freaky.
I had heard stories of ropes getting chipped before, BUT NEVER really understood the implications.. the rope doesn't move at the speed of the in-feed rollers, it moves at the speed of the drum (or disc), which is estimated at 120 MPH, with nearly unstoppable amount of force.. It would cut you in half!
God forbid a climbing line would get grabbed...
SO I post this so that you, my fellow tree brethren, might understand the DANGER of this potential, in case you, (like I previously had), do not understand the speed and force of a chipped line! I posted it becasue maybe this thread is gonna save a life. ITS A SERIOUSLY DANGEROUS SITUATION!
So keep your petty little bullsht comments to yourself. That is not what this forum is for!
easyphloem
Branched out member
- Location
- Louisville, KY
[ QUOTE ]
So keep your petty little bullsht comments to yourself. That is not what this forum is for!
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm confused. Who are you addressing here? I for one am glad you shared. This literally could happen to any crew.
SZ
So keep your petty little bullsht comments to yourself. That is not what this forum is for!
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm confused. Who are you addressing here? I for one am glad you shared. This literally could happen to any crew.
SZ
Which freak actually caused this accident Daniel?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Is this an advanced method of jump cutting a tree out of the ground?
Does it too require a very deep notch to compensate for the 120mph feedrate vectors tangling your stance as your tutorial gets upended so freakin rudely?
Will you submit your story for publication in the next TCIA edition?
jomoco
Inquiring minds want to know!
Is this an advanced method of jump cutting a tree out of the ground?
Does it too require a very deep notch to compensate for the 120mph feedrate vectors tangling your stance as your tutorial gets upended so freakin rudely?
Will you submit your story for publication in the next TCIA edition?
jomoco
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
[ QUOTE ]
Which freak actually caused this accident Daniel?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Is this an advanced method of jump cutting a tree out of the ground?
Does it too require a very deep notch to compensate for the 120mph feedrate vectors tangling your stance as your tutorial gets upended so freakin rudely?
Will you submit your story for publication in the next TCIA edition?
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
Does that answer your question Stephen?
Which freak actually caused this accident Daniel?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Is this an advanced method of jump cutting a tree out of the ground?
Does it too require a very deep notch to compensate for the 120mph feedrate vectors tangling your stance as your tutorial gets upended so freakin rudely?
Will you submit your story for publication in the next TCIA edition?
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
Does that answer your question Stephen?
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Yep, could happen to anyone. The take away for me is; move ropes away from the work area once you're finished using them making sure they are clear of any branches or the path of brush being moved to the chipper.
The fact that your foot was injured possibly due to the lack of proper safety boots only illustrates the importance of such footwear regardless of the cause of injury. They protect from many dangers, this is just one of the more obscure.
Awareness of the lines and removing them immediately from potential entanglement is paramount.
The fact that your foot was injured possibly due to the lack of proper safety boots only illustrates the importance of such footwear regardless of the cause of injury. They protect from many dangers, this is just one of the more obscure.
Awareness of the lines and removing them immediately from potential entanglement is paramount.
- Location
- Bend, Oregon
Yep, BS comments are unnecessary here. Though people have opinions of daniel, it takes guts to post an accident that could have killed him instantly... I'm sure it's lesson learned, more vigilance when chipping, or have chipper off until ropes are wrapped up.
allmark
Participating member
Heal well Daniel.
This is definately a place where personal attacks should not be. It takes a hard hit to someones pride, especially someone with years of experience to let others know you were involved in some type of incident. Luckily many of us here have put that aside to hopefully prevent it happening to someone else.Or atleast renew our awareness.
Thank you for your post Dan
This is definately a place where personal attacks should not be. It takes a hard hit to someones pride, especially someone with years of experience to let others know you were involved in some type of incident. Luckily many of us here have put that aside to hopefully prevent it happening to someone else.Or atleast renew our awareness.
Thank you for your post Dan
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
http://youtu.be/Aua50eFVgoI
Here's the video of the large limb that was lowered just prior to the rope going through the chipper.. you can clearly see the SMALL size of the two limbs that somehow, the rope got hung up on.. they first make their appearance at 1:51 and then again in the last shot at 2:07 they are clearly visible, as the limbs that are tangled in the tag line, that end up on the blacktop, in front of the big limb.
The tag line had been pulled out of the way before the big limb was chipped... the big limb was fed into the chipper whole, with the skid loader.. after it was gone, I noticed the two little broken maple limbs leaned up against the guardrail some 20-30'+ away from the mouth of the chipper.. they were free standing with no rope on or even near them. The man who had been handling the tag line, had freed them from the line and put them out of the way while he was flaking the line into the tupperware.
Neither he nor I saw the line get tangled in those little limbs as I carried them to the chipper. They were barely touching the ground if at all.. Maybe he somehow pulled the line across part of one limb as he was flaking it into the chipper, but that seems unblikely. To my recollection, before I picked those limbs up there was no line with a good distance of the chipper, maybe 15-20' plus. I can't be exactly sure of that, as all I know for sure is that the line was well clear of the big limb before it was chipped.
Looks like that limb is more like 35'+. The big limb may have been turned so that it was more pointing into the street, than up towards the guard rail, so maybe part of the line was within 15' of the chipper.
Hope that all makes sense.. The other groundman that had been running the ropes told me that he was just about to idle the chipper down, when he saw me approaching with the two little pieces of brush. He let the chipper run, and never noticed the line. It still a mystery to me how this could have happened.
Here's the video of the large limb that was lowered just prior to the rope going through the chipper.. you can clearly see the SMALL size of the two limbs that somehow, the rope got hung up on.. they first make their appearance at 1:51 and then again in the last shot at 2:07 they are clearly visible, as the limbs that are tangled in the tag line, that end up on the blacktop, in front of the big limb.
The tag line had been pulled out of the way before the big limb was chipped... the big limb was fed into the chipper whole, with the skid loader.. after it was gone, I noticed the two little broken maple limbs leaned up against the guardrail some 20-30'+ away from the mouth of the chipper.. they were free standing with no rope on or even near them. The man who had been handling the tag line, had freed them from the line and put them out of the way while he was flaking the line into the tupperware.
Neither he nor I saw the line get tangled in those little limbs as I carried them to the chipper. They were barely touching the ground if at all.. Maybe he somehow pulled the line across part of one limb as he was flaking it into the chipper, but that seems unblikely. To my recollection, before I picked those limbs up there was no line with a good distance of the chipper, maybe 15-20' plus. I can't be exactly sure of that, as all I know for sure is that the line was well clear of the big limb before it was chipped.
Looks like that limb is more like 35'+. The big limb may have been turned so that it was more pointing into the street, than up towards the guard rail, so maybe part of the line was within 15' of the chipper.
Hope that all makes sense.. The other groundman that had been running the ropes told me that he was just about to idle the chipper down, when he saw me approaching with the two little pieces of brush. He let the chipper run, and never noticed the line. It still a mystery to me how this could have happened.
- Location
- Springfield MO
When I first read this last night I emiedately pulled the spec sheet for our chippers and figured the actual speeds for the feed wheel and the drum. I plan on using those numbers and this story(along with others with worse outcomes) in my Monday morning safety meeting. Glad you and your crew are ok Daniel! Thanks for sharing.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Foot injuries really suck extra bad. I'm glad it wasn't any worse Daniel. I hope you recover fast.
boreality
New member
- Location
- boreal forest
Yes sorry about the link to the Elton song. I thought it was funny but not meant to offend. We hear about old pros getting killed and injured often here. It's dangerous work as we know.
- Location
- BC, Canada
Daniel,
Incident/accident debriefs are great, but need structure to be informative.
When a safety professional looks to eliminate a hazard, there are three target areas, in descending order of effectiveness/desirability:
1. At the source.
2. Along the path to the worker.
3. At the worker. (ie
PE, worker training)
Textbook example for clarity:
Hazard: Parts cleaning machine produces toxic fumes with chronic health implications.
1. At the source, switch to a non-toxic solvent, if one exists. No?, then...
2. Along the path, install a venting system with approved filters/scubbers. Not feasible?, then...
3. At the worker, employees must wear appropriate breathing apparatus while at or near the machine.
As I said, that is literally out of the textbook, so it is not related to our industry, but the structure or protocol of hazard elimination is applicable, so let's apply it.
Hazard: Chainsaw kick-back.
1. At the source, get out the Silky for small cuts.
2. Along the path, properly operating inertial chain-brake mechanism on all chainsaws.
3. At the worker, Chaps or sawpants, hardhat, proper training in chainsaw use and kickback avoidance.
In this example it should be clear that all three levels of hazard avoidance are appropriate depending on the circumstance.
I hope these basics are useful to you as you work at resolving the mystery of your recent accident.
And I wasn't being flip about hoping your chipper is OK, I have not seen but am aware of rope-eaten-by-chipper incidents that have splayed the bearings on the disc/drum shaft, depends how much rope got eaten.
Northwind
Incident/accident debriefs are great, but need structure to be informative.
When a safety professional looks to eliminate a hazard, there are three target areas, in descending order of effectiveness/desirability:
1. At the source.
2. Along the path to the worker.
3. At the worker. (ie
PE, worker training)Textbook example for clarity:
Hazard: Parts cleaning machine produces toxic fumes with chronic health implications.
1. At the source, switch to a non-toxic solvent, if one exists. No?, then...
2. Along the path, install a venting system with approved filters/scubbers. Not feasible?, then...
3. At the worker, employees must wear appropriate breathing apparatus while at or near the machine.
As I said, that is literally out of the textbook, so it is not related to our industry, but the structure or protocol of hazard elimination is applicable, so let's apply it.
Hazard: Chainsaw kick-back.
1. At the source, get out the Silky for small cuts.
2. Along the path, properly operating inertial chain-brake mechanism on all chainsaws.
3. At the worker, Chaps or sawpants, hardhat, proper training in chainsaw use and kickback avoidance.
In this example it should be clear that all three levels of hazard avoidance are appropriate depending on the circumstance.
I hope these basics are useful to you as you work at resolving the mystery of your recent accident.
And I wasn't being flip about hoping your chipper is OK, I have not seen but am aware of rope-eaten-by-chipper incidents that have splayed the bearings on the disc/drum shaft, depends how much rope got eaten.
Northwind
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
Good info..
Thanks..
Ya.. the ankle is broken.. fibula.. acceptable displacement, so no surgery.. should heal up OK in time.. It felt a lot better yesterday and a whole lot better today.
We had a debriefing meeting this AM.. we still don't understand how the rope got caught on those little branches..
I'll never go on a another tree job without high top boots. Hoping to be back in the bucket shortly, maybe put in a stool. Wonder how long before I can drive a stick..
Thanks..
Ya.. the ankle is broken.. fibula.. acceptable displacement, so no surgery.. should heal up OK in time.. It felt a lot better yesterday and a whole lot better today.
We had a debriefing meeting this AM.. we still don't understand how the rope got caught on those little branches..
I'll never go on a another tree job without high top boots. Hoping to be back in the bucket shortly, maybe put in a stool. Wonder how long before I can drive a stick..
- Location
- Sunshine State
Seems like a case of crew-wide complacency. At least three people could have/should have seen this and stopped it.
I know I've learned from this. I would have expected the rope to be drawn in at a nice liesurely pace by the feed wheels, but now realize that once it hits the drum/knives it's going to rip like a bullet.
I know I've learned from this. I would have expected the rope to be drawn in at a nice liesurely pace by the feed wheels, but now realize that once it hits the drum/knives it's going to rip like a bullet.
- Location
- California
Sorry to hear about it, Daniel. Hope you get better.
You were fortunate Daniel to sustain injuries that will heal.
Clean work zone and good communication helps a lot with avoiding issues.
Because the chipper is so loud and we usually have a good job set up that permits stacking of brush, we usually do not run the chipper until the job is wrapped up. I feel it is safer this way. Plus it saves a ton of fuel.
Clean work zone and good communication helps a lot with avoiding issues.
Because the chipper is so loud and we usually have a good job set up that permits stacking of brush, we usually do not run the chipper until the job is wrapped up. I feel it is safer this way. Plus it saves a ton of fuel.
