Flouting PPE the cool way

JeffGu said:
If arborists were required to string 5/8" safety ropes horizontally every 4 feet of vertical height above ground in a circle around the tree, with fall arrestors hooking the entire crew to them, while carrying at least one fire extinguisher and wearing a bee suit and a ventilator...
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That's a nice satire, but no OSHA standards I'm familiar with are that ridiculous, and most of them make good sense.

If you're tripping over extension cords and pneumatic hoses on a roof, then maybe you've got too many tools and too many people on the roof. For most of my 30-year building career, I rarely had much more than a hammer on the roof with me, and never more than one or two other people at a time.

Where I do agree is that some OSHA rules are not necessary for the very small contractor (and I've never seen an OSHA inspector at any work site I've been on during those 30 years, as they mostly police the big boys) - as long as common sense and a priority on worker safety are in the driver's seat.

In fact, though I've regularly used non-OSHA improvised scaffolding, cranes and jacks, using old-timer tricks of the trade, I've never had a work-at-height accident, and hardly any accident of any kind on any of my job sites.
 
The worst accident I had in 12 years was a tearoff crew that liked to jump down off the roof onto the tearoff pile. I dragged them all up to a local health clinic for tetanus shots, and they stopped doing it. Fear of needles was greater than their fear of nails in their feet (go figure). I always had a toeboard at the roof edge or a rope tied to trainees to prevent them from reaching the downslope edge. Falls usually only involved some ugly "shingle rash" and the occasional cuts from landing on exposed nails.

It is exactly the impact on small companies that I was refering to, and I agree that OSHA doesn't waste a lot of time bothering with the small fish in the pond. Most of the proposed regulations I refer to were, in fact, dropped or modified. It took a bit of ranting and raving, though.

You don't, however, roof 30 to 40 houses in a season with nothing but a bag of nails and a hammer. Although I have hand nailed small jobs myself a few times, the air gun is the equivalent of the chainsaw in the arborist industry. You can cut a 90' oak tree down with handsaws, but I don't see that as a productive business model.
 
JeffGu said:
the air gun is the equivalent of the chainsaw in the arborist industry. You can cut a 90' oak tree down with handsaws, but I don't see that as a productive business model.
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Not a valid analogy. A standard 36" 3-tab shingle requires four nails, and any good roofer can sink a roofing nail with two hits - one to set and one to sink - and do a better job than anyone with a nailgun (which will invariably overdrive and underdrive some).

A pneumatic nailgun (or, heavens forbid, a staple gun) offers mostly the illusion of saving time, as no one counts the time it takes to set up and take down the equipment and drag hoses all over a roof (and watch out that you don't trip on one).

I once had to supervise a roofing crew which bragged about setting the Michigan speed roofing record, because they wanted to install shingles without felt (tarpaper, for you laypeople) and with drip edge only at the eaves but not at the rakes. As with most such cases, they sacrificed not only quality but even standard industry practice for speed.
 
Well, I've torn off roofs that were stapled... didn't need any tearoff tools. You can pull huge chunks off (10' x 10' or so) with your bare hands. Good reason why most states have banned them.

I've had some very good, fast shinglers work for me. More than one thought they could hand nail faster than I can put them down with a gun. They were all wrong, and they all preferred using the guns on all but the smallest jobs or detail work. Setting the air pressure correctly for the shingles you're using and the underlayment (prep work) used is key. Personally, I make heavy use of ice shield and double layer (half-lapped) 30# felt. Although I sometimes set the air pressure down a bit and hand sink the nails with a hammer, especially in very cold or very hot weather, it's a rare job that I find it necessary.

I don't doubt for a minute that most people don't use the equipment to its best potential. Consistency and quality mean more to me than speed, and I never found the guns to be an impediment to either. If I had, I never would have adopted their use. I found that most decent shinglers could do very good work if they stayed at around 1.5 squares an hour. I even threatened to fire a few for going much over that. I could look down a course and tell them how far off they were getting when they pushed things too fast. My sons used to take a tape measure to see if they could catch me being way off on my proclamations. They eventually gave that up.

The hoses are definitely an added safety issue, that much can't be argued. But I think the chainsaw analogy is valid. The convenience of the efficiency and speed come at the price of increased safety concerns, and in both cases, the odds of either industry abandoning their use in favor of the "old school" techniques is about the same as my odds of winning the lottery.
 
Nish said:
Whatever the reason, moralizing grows pretty thick on internet forums. As a counterbalance I'll pose this question: in what ways might it be appropriate, or at least cool, to flout the canonical standards of PPE and safety? Surely not everyone who does so is a hack, an amateur, or an idiot. Who would censure Beranek for chainsawing one-handed in his homemade saddle? Or how about this guy (check out what he's doing about half way through)? I've got a few thoughts on this, but not many.
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I just PPEd my pants.
 
I find even suggesting that the fact that not using PPE might be cool to be highly offensive, disrespectful, misguided and irresponsible.

Bear in mind that according to John Ball's research the arborist industry has one of the highest accident rates, head to head annually with off-shore fishing off Alaska. Statistically, working as a miner in China is safer, again, this is according to John.

Reduce the safety in the system? Are you serious?

In a day and age, when so much information and specialist training and equipment are in theory available, when large companies are struggling to implement robust safety schemes, suggesting to NOT use PPE – and that this might even be cool – leaves me speechless. And more than just a bit irritated.

If, on the other hand you were just out to provoke a response, you've got it.

As an industry, we have gone to great lengths to encourage and foster a culture that allows safety to be viewed in a differentiated fashion, not un-cool, cumbersome or inefficient, but on the contrary, something that is pro-active, respectful to others around us, such as our team and/ or our family. Being safe and working in an ergonomic fashion can on the contrary increase productivity and be fun. Have we come a long way? Yes, we have. Are we where we ought to be? Probably depends where you look, but certainly it is an on-going process. Is this the right point in time to stark looking backwards and thinking that things back then looked much easier, so let's just head backwards again? Most certainly not.

This almost feels like a flashback to the eighties, when arboriculture was a very different place. Then, indeed, the use of PPE was viewed in a much more optional fashion. So while we're about it: why not drop the use of PPE, all be cool together, start doing cavity work again and applying wound dressing?

Not really an option, as I am sure most would agree. There is only one way to go here, which is forwards.
 
Helmets DO protect the brain in case of contact with falling object or a hard swing. Glasses DO protect the eyes, although more from impact than fine dust intrusion. Ear plugs and muffs DO preserve the ability to hear. Chaps DO stop a chainsaw from penetrating the leg. All these should not be optional, and I cannot think of a single circumstance in which a worker would be safer WITHOUT this basic PPE.

As for one-handing the saw? No comment - too many worms in that can.

Tree climbing is dangerous, period. Stay aware of all the hazards at all times, brcause no matter how hard they try, OSHA cannot save you from an accident - they just show up after the fact. The only one who can keep you safe is YOU.
 
JeffGu said:
ROFL... new OSHA regulation! All climbers must incorporate adult diapers into their safety equipment inventory...
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I wear chainsaw pants in the tree, I've got that one covered already.

Hey Mark B! I see you're an english major! Yes, the word "Flouting" means to disregard, but I'm really of the mind that he meant the opposite, as in, "Touting". Sometimes, and I have been accused of this more than once, we can start sounding preachy about it and with arborists being who they are it doesn't work and can have the opposite effect. Finding sharp, witty ways of getting the Safety message across is something we would do well to work on.



But your points are well taken!
 
Treehumper, I re-read the original post and no, I think flouting is indeed what is meant.

But ultimately I think it was only ever about provoking a response anyways... controversy for the sake of controversy. Shows slightly poor judgement in my opinion to choose such an essential topic to do so, but hey, I suppose each as he or she sees fit, certainly wouldn't be my choice.
 
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Mark_B. said:
Treehumper, I re-read the original post and no, I think flouting is indeed what is meant.

But ultimately I think it was only about provoking a response anyways... controversy for the sake of controversy.
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Ya know, you're right. The notion that someone who ask that must've just been too mindboggling and I just put that right out of head. I took it to mean if these guys are seen not following the rules how would you convince others without sounding preachy.

Nish, no cool way, no cool reason. It's dangerous enough without taking these measures. The "its my life, I can do what I want" argument doesn't fly either. The echos of your actions, good and bad, reverberate for a long time after.
 
treehumper said:
I wear chainsaw pants in the tree, I've got that one covered already.

Hey Mark B! I see you're an english major! Yes, the word "Flouting" means to disregard, but I'm really of the mind that he meant the opposite, as in, "Touting". Sometimes, and I have been accused of this more than once, we can start sounding preachy about it and with arborists being who they are it doesn't work and can have the opposite effect. Finding sharp, witty ways of getting the Safety message across is something we would do well to work on.



But your points are well taken!
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It's nice to see some people still break out that old paperback thesaurus and/or dictionary. Who says google is everything.
 
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