F8 Revolver Advice?

VoodooViolinist said:
SO I ASSUME NO ONE HAS EVEN TRIED THIS. Honestly, rope wrench doesn't work as a foot anchor or have the ability to attach a pulley to it for 2:1 purposes, so this change makes this more functional than a RW... and cheaper...

"edit" Not trying to sound snarky, I realize this is working season and as someone looking to make things happen on a budget, ie use what I have so I can spend money on things I need, ie food, rent and savings towards fixing my home/ vehicle. Simplicity is my aim, one for the notion of less things to mess up and two for the simple idea of being able to keep the basics on me at all times and when the need calls, GO. I realize the rope runner and rope wrench are great tools for the purpose of climbing, but again, this is cheaper and while maybe not as inherently fluid, it offers two in one for the purpose of one tool, and it does both features without any changeover, like rope runner isn't letting your attach a foot anchor or pulley to it? You'd have to attach an additional friction hitch or piece of equipment. This you just utilize the second tail and the original descending feature is more or less unchanged with the addition of the second hitch, if sized appropriately, it tends itself, It can jump to the top ring, but that just creates a stop, nothing like a catastrophic failure. Like the second tail even acts as an emergency brake in the event your harness hitch fails? I just see so many possibilities out of a simple configuration addition.
Click to expand...
Got a try at this, works nice, but might be bit complicated for use above a hitch.
 
I guess I have not seen any video of the rope runner or rope wrench done where you can swing the tail of your SRS system into a pulley attached to your F8's second tail and pull yourself up on the single line with. 2:1 mechanical advantage, I just need to have this rain stop and do a video. I totally get this is OLD school with the plethora of equipment options out there, just feels like I found a solution to my 'problem' (broke amateur) for feeling safer going up and down and was wishing for some analysis outside my possibly biased opinion! Like I get the stiff tethered rope wrench and how it tends itself up and provides a mechanical advantage with the bend it creates, but I guess I am failing to see how those devices are used those ways additional components? Like the Rope wench isn't a life saving device, ie it does provide a huge mechanical advantage for friction management and line tending, but the rope wrench doesn't stop you, your hitch does? This config can effectively stop you if your harness hitch failed.
Brocky said:
Got a try at this, works nice, but might be bit complicated for use above a hitch.
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I am able to make it my foot anchor. Sit in the hitch on my harness and slide the F8 up, step up to lock in, slide harness hitch up and repeat.
 
There is a reason that Rope Wrenches are so popular. You can make one for free, from a stick, a scrap of cord, and a drill-bit.

With a drilled hole for a slick-pin, you can even make it midline attachable.






Someone used a strap-hinge, with two triangular plates, taken apart, and bolted back together, maybe with a bushing over the threads.
On the forum somewhere. Almost free.

I started on a hickory, hammer-handle Rope-Wrench wannabe, back before the RW ZK1, then went to the ZK1, circa 2008 or 2010, whenever Kevin dreamed it up and was using limb wood for the original wooden wrench.

The problem with the F8 revolver type system is that they are not multisenders; you can ascend, but need to remove your weight from the rope to add the F8 part. No immediate descent possible.
 
VoodooViolinist said:
I guess I have not seen any video of the rope runner or rope wrench done where you can swing the tail of your SRS system into a pulley attached to your F8's second tail and pull yourself up on the single line with. 2:1 mechanical advantage, I just need to have this rain stop and do a video. I totally get this is OLD school with the plethora of equipment options out there, just feels like I found a solution to my 'problem' (broke amateur) for feeling safer going up and down and was wishing for some analysis outside my possibly biased opinion! Like I get the stiff tethered rope wrench and how it tends itself up and provides a mechanical advantage with the bend it creates, but I guess I am failing to see how those devices are used those ways additional components? Like the Rope wench isn't a life saving device, ie it does provide a huge mechanical advantage for friction management and line tending, but the rope wrench doesn't stop you, your hitch does? This config can effectively stop you if your harness hitch failed.

I am able to make it my foot anchor. Sit in the hitch on my harness and slide the F8 up, step up to lock in, slide harness hitch up and repeat.
Click to expand...

Here's a confession you, Brocky, me and a few others need to make. It's not about saving money, it's about the endless drive to create something to solve a problem. That's why we have the Rope Wrench and Rope Runner, Akimbo, Compact Bulldog Bone, Unicender, Hitchhiker in all its versions etc. etc. Individual climbers want to make their climbing more efficient and they worked at it for years. A few like Kevin Bingham (RW/RR) caused a climbing revolution that spread across the planet. It's not about the money, it's about the human trait to innovate and solve problems that drives all of this.

As far as the Rope Wrench goes, the stiff tether has nothing to do with mechanical advantage. The best way I can describe it is: The Rope Wrench creates a bend in the rope under load. The bend allows the tether (stiff or not) to take approx. 50% of the load. The other 50% stays in the main climbing rope. This allows a hitch to function smoothly. If a hitch takes 100% of the load it grabs too tight and release too hard. In some cases it will not release at all. This was literally the Holy Grail of single rope or SRS (Stationary Rope System) climbing. Climbers have been trying for many years to create a hitch system that would work SRS, the Rope Wrench does it magnificently.

The Rope Wrench and tether have nothing to do with life support, they are simply redistributing load. The life support is in the hitch. The stiff tether came later after Kevin developed early Rope Wrench versions, it simply pushes the Rope Wrench up and allows it to "open up" into a neutral position (no bend in the rope) during ascent. During descent the Rope Wrench engages and allows the hitch to function smoothly.

To get a 2:1 with these devices simply implement in doubled rope or MRS (Moving Rope System) mode, no additional gear required. To get 3:1 implement a RADS or Yo-Yo system. A RADS can be implemented many ways from stupidly simple to complex. I think Petzl has a RADS diagram somewhere on their web site.

Climbers get foot power on the rope by simply footlocking (specific arrangements of the rope tail on the climber's foot or feet). Nowadays climbers simply use a cammed foot ascender for simple and efficient foot power. Adding in a second offset ascender with a footloop (knee ascender) for the second foot creates even more efficiency. A very inexpensive and simple way to anchor your foot on the tail of the rope is to use a prussik loop tied from 7-10 mm supple cordage. Works very well but it has to be moved up manually per push while ascending.
-AJ

Congrats on making something that works for you!
-AJ
 
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VoodooViolinist said:
SO I ASSUME NO ONE HAS EVEN TRIED THIS.
Click to expand...

That looks cumbersome. I'd rather footlock. You could make a rope wrench with a $30 CMI pulley and some slic pins, a stiff tether with a sling and some pex pipe, and learn to footlock.

You could make a RADS setup with a Rope Wrench system, but why?

Its a skill I would not suggest anyone learn without an in person mentor that knows what they're doing.
 
moss said:
Here's a confession you, Brocky, me and a few others need to make. It's not about saving money, it's about the endless drive to create something to solve a problem. That's why we have the Rope Wrench and Rope Runner, Akimbo, Compact Bulldog Bone, Unicender, Hitchhiker in all its versions etc. etc. Individual climbers want to make their climbing more efficient and they worked at it for years. A few like Kevin Bingham (RW/RR) caused a climbing revolution that spread across the planet. It's not about the money, it's about the human trait to innovate and solve problems that drives all of this.

As far as the Rope Wrench goes, the stiff tether has nothing to do with mechanical advantage. The best way I can describe it is: The Rope Wrench creates a bend in the rope under load. The bend allows the tether (stiff or not) to take approx. 50% of the load. The other 50% stays in the main climbing rope. This allows a hitch to function smoothly. If a hitch takes 100% of the load it grabs too tight and release too hard. In some cases it will not release at all. This was literally the Holy Grail of single rope or SRS (Stationary Rope System) climbing. Climbers have been trying for many years to create a hitch system that would work SRS, the Rope Wrench does it magnificently.

The Rope Wrench and tether have nothing to do with life support, they are simply redistributing load. The life support is in the hitch. The stiff tether came later after Kevin developed early Rope Wrench versions, it simply pushes the Rope Wrench up and allows it to "open up" into a neutral position (no bend in the rope) during ascent. During descent the Rope Wrench engages and allows the hitch to function smoothly.

To get a 2:1 with these devices simply implement in doubled rope or MRS (Moving Rope System) mode, no additional gear required. To get 3:1 implement a RADS or Yo-Yo system. A RADS can be implemented many ways from stupidly simple to complex. I think Petzl has a RADS diagram somewhere on their web site.

Climbers get foot power on the rope by simply footlocking (specific arrangements of the rope tail on the climber's foot or feet). Nowadays climbers simply use a cammed foot ascender for simple and efficient foot power. Adding in a second offset ascender with a footloop (knee ascender) for the second foot creates even more efficiency. A very inexpensive and simple way to anchor your foot on the tail of the rope is to use a prussik loop tied from 7-10 mm supple cordage. Works very well but it has to be moved up manually per push while ascending.
-AJ

Congrats on making something that works for you!
-AJ
Click to expand...
I am obviously going to play with it this weekend, maybe get a video or something, but you are so right. It's about the desire to overcome the obstacle I have been dealt thus far. I was able to borrow an F8 for a week and all I have has been from my attempts at rock climbing gear (a harness and carabiners with cordage) was a desire to find something that felt fluid for me. So I do understand all the things you are referencing (footlocking, the prussik, how 2:1/ 3:1 and all that work), which is why I feel so excited about somehow taking the information you all have created to find my 'own' little thing, XD. Just happy to be learning and being able to get a feel for the foundations in a capacity I can use them effectively and innovatively if the situation requires, a skill that seems to be useful in life regardless the venture. I need to not be a miser and save money for the equipment, but patience hasn't been my virtue obviously, XD. You all are gentlemen and scholars, I probably just need to make a rope wrench, as you all say, and getting paid Friday will make that a good next stage project, XD. I really just need to get in some trees, but confidence has been the thing I wanted develop a bit more and all the resources here are golden.
 
Those who have tried out a diy, micro pulley, wrench, does a shorter or longer tether work better? Since the lever of that the wrench has isn't present, I'm trying to understand which length the tether should be.
 
seedy j said:
Those who have tried out a diy, micro pulley, wrench, does a shorter or longer tether work better? Since the lever of that the wrench has isn't present, I'm trying to understand which length the tether should be.
Click to expand...

i don’t think it matters in regard to micropulley wrench functionality. You can test different tether lengths with some strong accessory cord doubled. Doesn’t have to be rigid to test “lever action” effects with different tether lengths.
-AJ
 
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