"Extreme Rigging"

Re: \"Extreme Rigging\"

I was hoping you'd chime in frans - cause I know you must know Ken from your Hobbs/ GRCS video.

Have you asked Ken? It was quite a discussion, I am a trainee of his, and I didn't get the impression he was taking the piss.

Besides, this isn't dependent on whether Ken was having a laugh, although I'd like to hear from him. I've found it useful where there is no alternative, which is the entire point of the 'extreme' title. You can't free-chog it, so stick a lag in and off it goes. Takes a little longer, but better than a week of repairs to property or having a chunk run across a road!

Interesting what you said about letting the chip back up; I find it jams the saw when you can't follow through. Standing on spurs you can't withdraw a longer bar straight back, it has to be swept. A pocket full of small twigs
works as well as anything.

Euro crowd
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Re: \"Extreme Rigging\"

[Even if the wood is hard, small ball bearings still would sink into the wood if the wood was big and heavy enough that a climber would want some kind of mechanical aid in pushing them off the stick.
What most of us do is to allow chips to build up behind the bar of the saw as we are cutting. That helps with not binding the saw and with pushing the chunk off of the trunk]


I did say I wouldn't butt in again, but. The purpose built mechanical aid is on the pics Ken very kindly uploaded on my behalf earlier in the disscusion. will push a 300kg section with only 6kgf of mannual effort, 1200kg at 25kgf mannual effort, so no need for ball bearings, rods, chips pull ropes or anything else. Sorry, just thought I'd slip that one in, thankyou, please continue.
 
Re: \"Extreme Rigging\"

Interesting device.

What does it weigh, what does it cost and what is it called?

Looks easy but I expect its hard work because, on the last pic, the climber had to take his helmet off to let the steam out (
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just teasing).
 
Re: \"Extreme Rigging\"

Its called the 'block driver', not sure about the exact weight, will have a look for the stats later, although i think the idea is to leave it on the top of the section while your actually cutting through it, saves hanging on your belt I suppose. Ive had one on test for 12 months or so, should be available in a month or two, I assume. Retail price 300 pounds-ish, dont know for sure. Very easy to use, no effort and raises the load above any un-intended steps that can occur (handy for my cuts then), all done with one cut (no notches,steps ect) Id say without hesitation, definately a great option.

Anyway I have it on good authority that my interpretation of you as being institutionalised ect is not accurate. So applogies for getting it wrong. By the way, my wife likes your name, not sure how I feel about that, hope your not handsome as well! Going for a curry now, good evening.
 
Re: \"Extreme Rigging\"

Thanks for the info.

Its certainly not my experience that women find me handsome, other than one very special one, and thats all that matters!
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Riggs appeared most disappointed that I wasn't a 'big fat guy' when we met at TCI expo a few years ago (nice one Riggs
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). The two pics on my home page are recent pics of me, as is the one in my bio. My father was Italian (surprise surprise), I was born and raised true brit.

Thanks for the apology, though its not necessary, I understand how i come across to those who don't know my complex arb back ground - many hats spinning on one head, means they are easily confused.


So - whats your name contract, so I can check YOU out!
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Enjoy your curry....Mmmm....Chicken Chilli Garlic with mushroom pilau.....
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Re: \"Extreme Rigging\"

This is the only photo I could find. Its the right tree in question but you'll just have to imagine me standind proud with my chopper in hand!
 

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Re: \"Extreme Rigging\"

Laz , I wouldn't do it , it be done. Of course the lags would hold , but it is work. What do you do with all the pieces of wood with steel in them ? more work . I would buy a cheap short axe from a local hardware store, and chop the Ivy off the trunk before I got involved in drilling holes and installing hardware. A lag is for anchoring , not lowering . I've seen people back in the seventy's lower half inch line off of lags , only because they cut the cables and thought they be a good fixed lowering option. it worked , but the work of installing the lags was allready done. I can't see me tying a sling and block being less productive or safe than that method. Extreme rigging isn't this , don't make me go there.
 
Re: \"Extreme Rigging\"

[ QUOTE ]

I think there are also differences in the way businesses are set up typically in the US compared to UK; I get the impression some of you have big lifting equipment and big chippers and usually easy access? Thats just not the case over here. We have poor access. There is no point having gear like that unless you have a regular municipal contract - most of the time it wouldn't get used because it won't fit through the tightbends and narrow roads, and if it does you can't park it. The example is a big backyard tree with narrow roads and little drop zone, but typically a prize lawn and other expensive property. In my area, steep hillsides with roads below are typical. Thats a lot of compounded risks. Most experienced riggers I've updated over here immediately see the benefits of the technique once we run the risks, numbers and options.
Everything has to be cut up and carried out. The sort of jobs that take 3 men between 3 and 5 days. Its normal over here.



[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to chime in...
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Laz, we work the same area. We have been for 25 year's.
in that time, I'm yet to come across a Job where I cant get a crane in.
getting the right equipment into a tight job just require's lateral thinking, just like extreme rigging.
I also-use big chippers, crane / grapple trucks and skidsteer's.
Many a time I've won a job by squeezing a crane in and being done in a day. Probably the 110 foot rotten tulip tree at the vicarage in Betws y coed being the most memorable.

Maybe I should start running training courses in the correct use of equipment for treework
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Interesting reading this thread. If you plan on using this technique give me a call. I'd like to see it in action
 
Re: \"Extreme Rigging\"

"lateral thinking is the way forwards.."

The way forward is to the next job . You can't be getting mail at the customers house . There are ways to get jobs done with out creating more work for yourself.

" I'd like to see it in action"
Yeah , bring the popcorn.
 
Re: \"Extreme Rigging\"

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]




[/ QUOTE ]
If you plan on using this technique give me a call. I'd like to see it in action

[/ QUOTE ]

Shoot! If you plan on using this method. Make a video. We'd all like to see this.
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Re: \"Extreme Rigging\"

Ed, you can't always get the kit in. I'm not an idiot and certainly not getting younger - if i can get a crane in, I will and do wherever possible. But the fact is you can't always. Fortunately, trees like this aren't too common, although with climate change and trees dying/sucumbing to disease, that may change shortly. Then we'll have a big weak tree with no crane access - You could maybe get a mega crane in from a distance, but they are megabucks - lags and a little more time are going to be cheaper.

As for the title 'Extreme Rigging', I see where Rupe is coming from with 'alternative rigging' although I actually see it as 'no alternative rigging'. I get the impression most think that 'extreme' should be reserved for something that is extremely dangerous (as in extreme sports). If that means pushing the limits that may risk tree/equipment failure and death, be prepared for the consequences:



http://www.corporate-manslaughter.net/

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/section5/chapter_b.html#_Toc3174419

Whatever techniques you use, make sure they are written up and justified in an objective way (risk assessment and effective controls), because that is how you will be judged should something fail, and an employee, client or member of the public end up being killed.

I get the impression that this isn't a worry in the USA
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Re: \"Extreme Rigging\"

Extreme rigging should be in excess of one thousand pounds using extreme rigging gear suited for the extreme job at hand, not stretching the limits of what we use in what could be viewed as normal every day rigging.
 
Re: \"Extreme Rigging\"

Why one thousand? Doesn't sound much to me. Or are you talking 1000lbs static? 1000lb peak force is easy to achieve in everyday rigging.

The rigging system should be designed around typical peak forces, which is why so many trainers invest in dynamometers to demonstrate how systems fail 'unexpectedly'.
 
Re: \"Extreme Rigging\"

That would be static, big large extreme pieces requiring extreme rigging.
Like jumping the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle or drpping a volvo out of a tree...extreme.
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Re: \"Extreme Rigging\"

Two baby rabbits hopping through the woods, come across a large piece of timber lying on the ground moaning in pain.

"What are you?" says one baby rabbit.

"I'm an ex tre me"
 
Re: \"Extreme Rigging\"

"I get the impression that this isn't a worry in the USA"
Now why would you go and say that ?

If this idea were a boat , it sink . Cause right now it's taking water. The idea itself is extreme , but it's just not pratical at all . Pat on the back and a "atta boy " , back to the drawing board . Time out ! next...
Back in the early 90's( 93?) my buddy and I went to the expo and told D. Blair we made lowering devices out of sailing winches , said we were crazy , would never work . Sue us and anyone who put them on market because he had the patten(on the strap). They worked , we used them all the time. Cranked up some big pieces , shot it on video , told we were beyond crazy, That was exreme rigging. Than a couple years later Greg Good was smarter and able to handle Blair better than us. So like I said , I'm all up for good ideas , but this isn't one. Never met Greg Good till he displayed his device at an expo , but here was a guy like us looking for that little bit extra.
Lags for lowering just doesn't float.
 
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