dual petzel ascensions
- Thread starter Colin
- Start date
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
I use tape and a bow shackle...
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Nope. I've been using'em that way for about two years. The shackle is an exact fit (just luck) so it keeps them tight.
Treemachine(?)uses a similar rig, wrote about it in TCIA mag.
The brand new Ascensions have a little tab at the bottom of the handle... I figure you have to grind it off to get the same tight fit.
Treemachine(?)uses a similar rig, wrote about it in TCIA mag.
The brand new Ascensions have a little tab at the bottom of the handle... I figure you have to grind it off to get the same tight fit.
- Location
- United Kingdom
You could remove the "inner" part of the rubber handle on each one, then they would fit tighter together. Tape up the new two halve of handles to make one comfy one?
Of course thats them ruined for individual use though!
Of course thats them ruined for individual use though!
SingleJack
Participating member
- Location
- W MD
[ QUOTE ]
does anyone have a link to the article?
[/ QUOTE ]
<u><font color="blue">TCIA Article: "The Single-handled DUAL Ascender, A concept approach"</font></u>
does anyone have a link to the article?
[/ QUOTE ]
<u><font color="blue">TCIA Article: "The Single-handled DUAL Ascender, A concept approach"</font></u>
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
The older Blue and yellow ones fit together nicely without modding but yeah, the new black ones will likely need that part of the handle reshaped.
Jeff,
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/151d2127#/151d2127/1
He actually uses his bi-directionally for work climbing. I only use mine for ascent.
Jeff,
http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/151d2127#/151d2127/1
He actually uses his bi-directionally for work climbing. I only use mine for ascent.
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
Single Handled Dual Ascender
Hi.
Are these the ones you're talking about?
Here is the PDF if you want to open it directly to your desktop:
Hi.
Are these the ones you're talking about?
Here is the PDF if you want to open it directly to your desktop:
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Re: Single Handled Dual Ascender
That would be them... what's up Jim?
That would be them... what's up Jim?
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
Re: Single Handled Dual Ascender
[ QUOTE ]
That would be them... what's up Jim?
[/ QUOTE ] Hey Blinky.
As far as 'everyone' posting their experiences here with these particular ascenders, I think there's only about three or 4 guys on the planet as far as I know, Blinky has direct experience, and me. Please, anyone else, would love to hear from you.
<u>Dual</u> handled dual ascenders have been around for many a year and are NOT what we're talking about here, not the Petzl Ascentree, not mar bars, not the Kong Twin or the Kong Trender.
The dual handle systems are remarkably different in performance than what Cochran is referring to. The front-to-back ascentree is in a world all its own.
Jeff's post was pretty simple and specific;
[ QUOTE ]
i'm looking for instructions on how you guys are attaching two petzel ascensions together.
[/ QUOTE ]
This would be the Single Handled Dual Ascender, so new to the world of Arboriculture that they don't actually exist yet.
In getting started, let me say, all this is captured in close to a hundred pictures. It is easier to give a picture or two, and caption them. I'm climbing on my third set of these in a year. For you guys who come from the school of 'don't modify your gear', get ready to have your undies in a tizz.
[ QUOTE ]
That would be them... what's up Jim?
[/ QUOTE ] Hey Blinky.
As far as 'everyone' posting their experiences here with these particular ascenders, I think there's only about three or 4 guys on the planet as far as I know, Blinky has direct experience, and me. Please, anyone else, would love to hear from you.
<u>Dual</u> handled dual ascenders have been around for many a year and are NOT what we're talking about here, not the Petzl Ascentree, not mar bars, not the Kong Twin or the Kong Trender.
The dual handle systems are remarkably different in performance than what Cochran is referring to. The front-to-back ascentree is in a world all its own.
Jeff's post was pretty simple and specific;
[ QUOTE ]
i'm looking for instructions on how you guys are attaching two petzel ascensions together.
[/ QUOTE ]
This would be the Single Handled Dual Ascender, so new to the world of Arboriculture that they don't actually exist yet.
In getting started, let me say, all this is captured in close to a hundred pictures. It is easier to give a picture or two, and caption them. I'm climbing on my third set of these in a year. For you guys who come from the school of 'don't modify your gear', get ready to have your undies in a tizz.
Attachments
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
Re: Single Handled Dual Ascender
Here's the original article where I first saw a pair of singles put together to form a dual ascender, the second dual I ever saw with a SINGLE handle.
Buzz articles, August 07
Why a single handled dual over a dual handled dual? The second handle is useless, it's in the way, detracts from overall performance abilities, adds weight, bulk and size and causes safety issues that just don't need to be there.
I can elaborate on any of those points in good detail, and with pictures. They're not just my opinions, though without substantiation from a larger pool of users, let's just call it a review.
Here's the original article where I first saw a pair of singles put together to form a dual ascender, the second dual I ever saw with a SINGLE handle.
Buzz articles, August 07
Why a single handled dual over a dual handled dual? The second handle is useless, it's in the way, detracts from overall performance abilities, adds weight, bulk and size and causes safety issues that just don't need to be there.
I can elaborate on any of those points in good detail, and with pictures. They're not just my opinions, though without substantiation from a larger pool of users, let's just call it a review.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Re: Single Handled Dual Ascender
Mike Skillin lurks but doesn't post here. I learned about it from him. I don't know where he picked it up, He's a creative guy, I wouldn't be surprised if he came up with it on his own.
I've used a dual handle once and didn't like because it's too bulky to hang on the back of my harness and it was more of a bitch to get around limbs while the rope was under tension... and I've heard all these stories about ropes popping out. There's so many design now I don't know which ones are safe and which ones are hinky.
IF I were to design a dual handle it would be V shaped, not flat. Climbing with your wrists cocked out is unnatural.
Mike Skillin lurks but doesn't post here. I learned about it from him. I don't know where he picked it up, He's a creative guy, I wouldn't be surprised if he came up with it on his own.
I've used a dual handle once and didn't like because it's too bulky to hang on the back of my harness and it was more of a bitch to get around limbs while the rope was under tension... and I've heard all these stories about ropes popping out. There's so many design now I don't know which ones are safe and which ones are hinky.
IF I were to design a dual handle it would be V shaped, not flat. Climbing with your wrists cocked out is unnatural.
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
Re: Single Handled Dual Ascender
V-shaped WOULD be better for a set of ascenders with two handles.
I've used dual handle dual ascenders since the late 90's. 10 years, or so. For the longest time there was the Kongs and that was about it. I have dozens of pictures of that setup, if anyone's interested. As blinky says, they're bulky.
I'm more ready to talk about these single handled duals.
Mike Skillin, I salute you. Mark Adams, Quercus from Belgium, I saw examples of this single handled dual ascender from you guys before I ever tried one out. I thought it was a rather slick idea and I took your ideas, and set out to improve upon them. Without your early steps in innovating this paired ascender, I would still be on Kongs.
Speaking of Kongs, 6 or 7 years ago Dunlap and I were in a thread about backing up dual ascenders, the two-handled ones as that was all that was available at the time. Backing up went through many phases and many trials, Dunlap and I both wrote Kong with independent suggestions on innate, redundant safety features. Many years went by, and finally, 2009, Kong comes out with a really good two-handled Dual Ascender with DUAL-redundant safety features called the Trender down-loadable PDF click here..
A pretty good ascender, I am almost considering cutting off the second handle and giving it a go. Ha ha, WHoa, jest kidding.
V-shaped WOULD be better for a set of ascenders with two handles.
I've used dual handle dual ascenders since the late 90's. 10 years, or so. For the longest time there was the Kongs and that was about it. I have dozens of pictures of that setup, if anyone's interested. As blinky says, they're bulky.
I'm more ready to talk about these single handled duals.
Mike Skillin, I salute you. Mark Adams, Quercus from Belgium, I saw examples of this single handled dual ascender from you guys before I ever tried one out. I thought it was a rather slick idea and I took your ideas, and set out to improve upon them. Without your early steps in innovating this paired ascender, I would still be on Kongs.
Speaking of Kongs, 6 or 7 years ago Dunlap and I were in a thread about backing up dual ascenders, the two-handled ones as that was all that was available at the time. Backing up went through many phases and many trials, Dunlap and I both wrote Kong with independent suggestions on innate, redundant safety features. Many years went by, and finally, 2009, Kong comes out with a really good two-handled Dual Ascender with DUAL-redundant safety features called the Trender down-loadable PDF click here..
A pretty good ascender, I am almost considering cutting off the second handle and giving it a go. Ha ha, WHoa, jest kidding.
Attachments
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
Re: Dual Petzl Ascensions
Toothed-cammed ascenders have been shown to cause sheathe damage fairly easily, at least on single lines.
Have you been able to determine what falls can be sustained with your doubled ascender setup?
I understand all of our equipment in the arborist field is for work positioning. However, we are constantly putting ourselves, working out limb tips, working level with or even above our tip, where falls become possible.
Dave
Toothed-cammed ascenders have been shown to cause sheathe damage fairly easily, at least on single lines.
Have you been able to determine what falls can be sustained with your doubled ascender setup?
I understand all of our equipment in the arborist field is for work positioning. However, we are constantly putting ourselves, working out limb tips, working level with or even above our tip, where falls become possible.
Dave
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
Re: Dual Petzl Ascensions
Toothed-cammed ascenders have been shown to cause sheathe damage fairly easily, at least on single lines.
[/ QUOTE ]
'fairly easily' isn't quite a measure of any sort. I blew out a sheath on a 13mm KMIII using an old ascender and a 3:1 to pull a truck out. I'm pretty clear what it takes to destruct the mantle. The Kern, however, all it's fibers stayed mostly intact. Ropes today are pretty remarkable.
If what you're saying is that you feel a toothed cam could more likely cause sheath damage than a ribbed cam, I might be inclined to agree. If you look closely, they are very pointy, but not 'sharp' the teeth are smooth, chrome smooth.
[ QUOTE ]
Have you been able to determine what falls can be sustained with your doubled ascender setup?
[/ QUOTE ]I can't answer that as it's written. I would say, each side gets half the load, so technically, this ascender should be able to handle twice the loads since it is twice the ascender. But I don't know if that's a real answer.
Ours is not a sport where 'falling' ever allowed. You may have us mixed up with rock climbers. Falling is always a bad thing in arboriculture. Never, ever fall. When you climb above your tie-in point, just sink a redirect. You never, ever need to be more than an arm's reach higher than an anchor point. Either set a redirect or re-set your rope higher, climbing above more than a meter is unnecessary and just plain not good practice. We know it when we do it. If you are going out into exceedingly dangerous territory without setting protection you should be assessing a worst case scenario before you attempt the move,.... I mean, you can set a slinged biner, one handed in under 5 seconds. Why would a climber expose himself to excessive risk when setting protection is so easy? And judicious use of your flipline. Being tied in twice for cuts, and having redirects set where you need them, any 'fall' short of catastrophic failure of the tree, or parts of it, will be factor 1 at most. We do not 'take whippers' not commercial arborists, we take 'swings' if anything. If you are climbing out beyond your tie-in point, and we all do, you take your own safety into your own hands.
I know that redirects screw up your friction pattern when using a friction hitch and a 2:1 system. However, to understand the performance of these ascenders, you need to be in a 1:1 mindset where friction is NOT increased when passing through a crotch, or a slinged redirect. Friction is 100% at YOUR control, and not influenced by a fork, or a friction (cambium) saver or redirect or trunk friction.
[ QUOTE ]
I understand all of our equipment in the arborist field is for work positioning. However, we are constantly putting ourselves, working out limb tips, working level with or even above our tip, where falls become possible. [ QUOTE ]
That's the element I work in. What specific questions do you have?
Toothed-cammed ascenders have been shown to cause sheathe damage fairly easily, at least on single lines.
[/ QUOTE ]
'fairly easily' isn't quite a measure of any sort. I blew out a sheath on a 13mm KMIII using an old ascender and a 3:1 to pull a truck out. I'm pretty clear what it takes to destruct the mantle. The Kern, however, all it's fibers stayed mostly intact. Ropes today are pretty remarkable.
If what you're saying is that you feel a toothed cam could more likely cause sheath damage than a ribbed cam, I might be inclined to agree. If you look closely, they are very pointy, but not 'sharp' the teeth are smooth, chrome smooth.
[ QUOTE ]
Have you been able to determine what falls can be sustained with your doubled ascender setup?
[/ QUOTE ]I can't answer that as it's written. I would say, each side gets half the load, so technically, this ascender should be able to handle twice the loads since it is twice the ascender. But I don't know if that's a real answer.
Ours is not a sport where 'falling' ever allowed. You may have us mixed up with rock climbers. Falling is always a bad thing in arboriculture. Never, ever fall. When you climb above your tie-in point, just sink a redirect. You never, ever need to be more than an arm's reach higher than an anchor point. Either set a redirect or re-set your rope higher, climbing above more than a meter is unnecessary and just plain not good practice. We know it when we do it. If you are going out into exceedingly dangerous territory without setting protection you should be assessing a worst case scenario before you attempt the move,.... I mean, you can set a slinged biner, one handed in under 5 seconds. Why would a climber expose himself to excessive risk when setting protection is so easy? And judicious use of your flipline. Being tied in twice for cuts, and having redirects set where you need them, any 'fall' short of catastrophic failure of the tree, or parts of it, will be factor 1 at most. We do not 'take whippers' not commercial arborists, we take 'swings' if anything. If you are climbing out beyond your tie-in point, and we all do, you take your own safety into your own hands.
I know that redirects screw up your friction pattern when using a friction hitch and a 2:1 system. However, to understand the performance of these ascenders, you need to be in a 1:1 mindset where friction is NOT increased when passing through a crotch, or a slinged redirect. Friction is 100% at YOUR control, and not influenced by a fork, or a friction (cambium) saver or redirect or trunk friction.
[ QUOTE ]
I understand all of our equipment in the arborist field is for work positioning. However, we are constantly putting ourselves, working out limb tips, working level with or even above our tip, where falls become possible. [ QUOTE ]
That's the element I work in. What specific questions do you have?
Attachments
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
Re: Dual Petzl Ascensions
Here's two single Ascensions.
and here's about two minutes later. The old ascensions as shown here were 100% rubber handled and were easy to cut off with a chef's knife. The new version are a combination rubber/plastic.
I'm really <u>not</u> encouraging anyone to do this, but if you do, please be very careful.
Here's two single Ascensions.
and here's about two minutes later. The old ascensions as shown here were 100% rubber handled and were easy to cut off with a chef's knife. The new version are a combination rubber/plastic.
I'm really <u>not</u> encouraging anyone to do this, but if you do, please be very careful.
