Drt redirect?
- Thread starter Alcoley
- Start date
Santiago Casanova
Branched out member
- Location
- Sink Hole
I love kernmaster too. I use it DdRT. It is light, slick, and just a tiny bit of bounce. I have also spliced it with great results. I only got it because of a massive sale. I would prefer blue moon or tachyon for DdRT, but you can't beat $25 for 200' hanks of kernmaster. So kernmaster it is.
I don't use a DdRT redirect. I use one long DdRT system, a very long lanyard with 2 DdRT systems, and a second long DdRT for moving around. That is just my style and it works great in our massive live oaks.
@Santiago Casanova do you ever try climbing them SRT? We have the similarly shaped Mahogany trees and SRT is killer for them. I know many guys climbing them in the south and killing it with SRT. I have climbed a few live oaks this way too.
Santiago Casanova
Branched out member
- Location
- Sink Hole
I do want to go SRT for canopy access. I really like the efficiency and speed. I really like DdRT for moving through the canopy. I will sometimes climb with my climbing system slack as I move through the tree on lanyards. Then I can go back to my TIP and descend or I can do a single natural crotch redirect and descend at that point.
I think you need to fly me down to Barbados for a few weeks and show me how it is done. I am thinking of getting a HHX. I was going to get one from @yoyoman while I was at legends but my truck wanted that money. My AC compressor went out last monday and it was a good thing I did not buy any new gear.
My next gear additions are going to be a HHX, a SAKAmini, and a captian hook. The HHX and SAKA will be for efficiency in canopy access. The hook will help in traversing the canopy.
I gave up the idea of a ddrt redirect some time ago. I didn't like how the gear functioned for it, I didn't like how it loaded tops, and retrievable systems were sketchy to me.
Instead, I started climbing with my tail as a secondary system. I keep both a hitchclimber system and a shorty wrench system on my belt at all times for tail tying. No matter whether my 'primary' system is SRT or DdRT, I am constantly switching between the two in combinations with my tail.
Try tying your tail as a secondary DdRT system anchored where you would take a redirect. You are supported in a single load from two TIPS with no bad rope angles, it's no-brains retrievable, and you will be surprised how smooth it makes positioning. You can also ditch your first TIP and keep TIP hopping around the tree.
Also... yale 11.7 is the best all around climb-line on the market. Good with mechanicals/ascenders, but also good hitch reaction. No bounce. Pretty colors that don't want to get chipped...
Instead, I started climbing with my tail as a secondary system. I keep both a hitchclimber system and a shorty wrench system on my belt at all times for tail tying. No matter whether my 'primary' system is SRT or DdRT, I am constantly switching between the two in combinations with my tail.
Try tying your tail as a secondary DdRT system anchored where you would take a redirect. You are supported in a single load from two TIPS with no bad rope angles, it's no-brains retrievable, and you will be surprised how smooth it makes positioning. You can also ditch your first TIP and keep TIP hopping around the tree.
Also... yale 11.7 is the best all around climb-line on the market. Good with mechanicals/ascenders, but also good hitch reaction. No bounce. Pretty colors that don't want to get chipped...
When I was still on an MRS as a primary, I used what Mitch described exclusively. It does work well, and for the reasons stated. The down side is it will often compromise your ability to hit the ground quickly because the tail of your rope is not free. I never experienced a problem but the possibility was there.
Since switching to SRS as a primary that is no longer a problem and I can still maintain good, low-angled suspension by a simple natural, (retrievable or not depending) redirect or by using my long lanyard.
Since switching to SRS as a primary that is no longer a problem and I can still maintain good, low-angled suspension by a simple natural, (retrievable or not depending) redirect or by using my long lanyard.
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Santiago Casanova
Branched out member
- Location
- Sink Hole
Everybody is different; we like what we like. That being said, I do want to add SRT to my tool kit. I don't use a DdRT redirect for anything other than an emergency rappel out of the tree. They don't work well. That is why I have a long lanyard with a double DdRT on it. I previously climbed with my tail but I found I like the lanyard setup better. I like keeping the tail free so it can follow me through the tree. I do use the tail and a figure 8 to control a long swing back to my TIP. I also like that by keeping the tail free it allows twists in the line to roll out as I climb.
Retrievable friction savers are not sketchy to me. Maybe because I splice my own and I trust my materials and methods.
With all this said; I might be in a tree and be able to move around on my access line. At that point I will probably just use my access line and lanyards. Every tree is different and some techniques will work when other won't
It’s funny you brought up the tachyon becaause for a bit there I was using a 200’ tachyon line for SRT and I didn’t really like it so much, too much stretch in the system for me personally; but I did find that you could use that to your advantage while ascending, if you are able to time the bounce and your movement on a rope walking system correctly (I haven’t messed around with any other sort of ascent system on the tachyon). It’s kinda fun actually. At the same time I found that I would have to take much more slack out of the system than I expected to when trying to work the tree, but this may be due to me being used to working with only kernmeleon or htp (my personal favorite for SRT so far)
It’s funny you brought up the tachyon becaause for a bit there I was using a 200’ tachyon line for SRT and I didn’t really like it so much, too much stretch in the system for me personally; but I did find that you could use that to your advantage while ascending, if you are able to time the bounce and your movement on a rope walking system correctly (I haven’t messed around with any other sort of ascent system on the tachyon). It’s kinda fun actually. At the same time I found that I would have to take much more slack out of the system than I expected to when trying to work the tree, but this may be due to me being used to working with only kernmeleon or htp (my personal favorite for SRT so far)
- Location
- Scariff
I use same redirect with pinto and karabiner, l find using spacer on the pinto lets the rope run smoother, (acts like a roller)sometimes the rope can get pinched between the ears of the pulley, l do like this system none the less.
Tree-Taylor
Branched out member
- Location
- Canada
I misplaced my pulley saver last fall. Actually a little heartbroken because I loved that thing. Instead of a pinto I spliced up a prussic with a rigging ring. It added that little bit of friction and made Ddrt so much easier on the arms and elbows. Not to mention it offered a little peace of mind during retrieval. It's been all SRT since last fall, Ddrt just doesn't seem right without that setup.
fall_risk
Participating member
- Location
- Philadelphia
I'm not going to wade too far into the SRS/MRS debate as that is technically a derail, except to say that there is no rule against rope walking MRS. I climb SRS 85+% of the time now, but in big trees I frequently use a long SRS line and a short (60'ish to 90'ish for 30' to 45' of reach) MRS line. For me, I had to learn SRS basically on my own, and the learning curve was steep. I started single up/double down, and it changed my life, but I think it was as much the ascenders as the SRS; I love my wrench/runner, but my ascenders I consider part of my saddle, and I won't climb without them. I did that for several years, gradually working more and more off a single line.
For me, it wasn't until I learned some better, more efficient canopy anchors and got over my initial reticence to basal anchor that things started to click for me. It was difficult to figure out how to be effective on a real-world jobsite without the easy TIP changes and trivial retrieval of MRS. I still strongly believe that new climbers should learn MRS first, and I won't turn my back on a trainee until he or she can tie an old-school closed system with nothing but the rope and one connector.
I didn't really use an MRS redirect that often when I was primarily climbing MRS, but I think that's because I hadn't learned to look at a tree in that vertical column way. The times I did use one, they worked great, and were way better than any other method I knew at the time. I don't think one would need to climb SRS to develop that vertical rather than radial way of seeing a tree; it is very similar to how I think about rigging. I also don't think it matters that much that MRS redirects aren't retrievable; I use fixed redirects all the time SRS; damn trees never seem to put branch unions where I want them. Just put on your ascenders and go get it (again, not against the rules of MRS).
I had the best success with a strap and double sheave pulley, but a strap with two biners, one at either end and the two legs each in a biner, worked pretty well, especially if one or both was a revolver or had a single pulley on it, and used stuff I have on my saddle all the time anyway. I'll try and put up pics tomorrow.
I think the most important things are to use a friction saver at the primary TIP, and use the lowest friction possible at the redirect. The less friction in the system, the more useful it becomes.
Here's a pretty good video Treemagineers did recently on this topic:
But what do those guys know...
If you really want to go down the rabbit hole, check this out:
If I was still doing a lot of big MRS climbs, I would totally build the double revolver redirect that's in there. It works a lot like a pulley saver, and you can retrieve it without giving up your primary TIP. Now that you've reminded me of it, and the Okames are in bloom, maybe I'll give it a try just for fun. If I'm not careful, I might learn something.
For me, it wasn't until I learned some better, more efficient canopy anchors and got over my initial reticence to basal anchor that things started to click for me. It was difficult to figure out how to be effective on a real-world jobsite without the easy TIP changes and trivial retrieval of MRS. I still strongly believe that new climbers should learn MRS first, and I won't turn my back on a trainee until he or she can tie an old-school closed system with nothing but the rope and one connector.
I didn't really use an MRS redirect that often when I was primarily climbing MRS, but I think that's because I hadn't learned to look at a tree in that vertical column way. The times I did use one, they worked great, and were way better than any other method I knew at the time. I don't think one would need to climb SRS to develop that vertical rather than radial way of seeing a tree; it is very similar to how I think about rigging. I also don't think it matters that much that MRS redirects aren't retrievable; I use fixed redirects all the time SRS; damn trees never seem to put branch unions where I want them. Just put on your ascenders and go get it (again, not against the rules of MRS).
I had the best success with a strap and double sheave pulley, but a strap with two biners, one at either end and the two legs each in a biner, worked pretty well, especially if one or both was a revolver or had a single pulley on it, and used stuff I have on my saddle all the time anyway. I'll try and put up pics tomorrow.
I think the most important things are to use a friction saver at the primary TIP, and use the lowest friction possible at the redirect. The less friction in the system, the more useful it becomes.
Here's a pretty good video Treemagineers did recently on this topic:
If you really want to go down the rabbit hole, check this out:
If I was still doing a lot of big MRS climbs, I would totally build the double revolver redirect that's in there. It works a lot like a pulley saver, and you can retrieve it without giving up your primary TIP. Now that you've reminded me of it, and the Okames are in bloom, maybe I'll give it a try just for fun. If I'm not careful, I might learn something.
- Location
- Scariff
Thanks for your very helpful and informative post, fall_risk, l find climbing technology's orbitor double sheave pulley with a taped sling and karabiner works like a dream for MRS redirect, the isolated sheaves prevent one leg of rope from jumping on tmagineeo the other leg as has happened to me using the
standard double pulley, and if l want, l can introduce a pinto and attach to the becket of my pulley ( intended for mechanical advantage of course) and try treemagineers system.
standard double pulley, and if l want, l can introduce a pinto and attach to the becket of my pulley ( intended for mechanical advantage of course) and try treemagineers system.
