Do you really hold the chainsaw with both hands ?

Bigtreeguy said:
If you one hand your are asking to get injured. I would say that it’s important to do good work and not one hand if you’re trying
To run a profitable healthy business @Sfoppema
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I don't think we will be able to agree on this matter.

Been to lots of meetings. Have all the certs. degrees in arboriculture. ]years of running my own business specifically climbing. In the last 5 years we did less than $1000 in property damage. Do you own your own business?

I have been to the hospital in those years once, but for a non motorized pole saw cut, for which I received stitches and was working the following morning. I'm more afraid of my pole saw and hand saw than I am of most of my other gear.

I didn't just pick up a saw and start waving it around. I do what makes the most sense for me, with lots of classroom and real life information/experience behind my decision making. Wouldn't force someone to do anything they didn't feel comfortable doing. If the situation calls for it, I one had. If I don't feel its a safe of productive thing to do, I don't.

What you do is your business. That's what a professor told me after a chainsaw safety class when I asked about similar matters. And I'll say the same to you good sir!

Of course that's the rule.

I don't cross the street on a crosswalk if it's safe to otherwise do so. I just cross the street when it's safe to cross.

Peace friends!
 
treebing said:
I was really good at never one handing while climbing. Unnecessary.

Then we got a lift. I dont know how to use that thing without one handing. Seriously have not figured it out.
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Funnily enough I'm the opposite, 1 hand when climbing way more than I bucket. I think it's because I can more quickly easily and quickly rig things, and I'm much more inclined to snap cut things (especially bigger wood) when it's above rather than below me
 
As a new climber, I struggle with this dilemma in my head often. Or rather struggle about thinking to the future and how I'm going to handle it. Dont currently fly a chainsaw in the tree too often. My boss is a former daily climber turned soft gut nifty lift user. Hes been in the trade for a long time and is quite skilled. But I see him 1 hand it a massive percent of the time. I dont get the opportunity to see him cut while climbing much. but in the lift, theres a ton of cut/catch/throw.

So, I would love to get the most common hypothetical in my head answered. You are removing a bunch of larger branches on one side of the tree with breakable homeowner property below. There isnt much to smoothly rig off of, but you could probably 1 hand cut/catch/throw. What do you do?

That may not be well thought out but appreciate all responses

:b
 
Lupin_IV said:
As a new climber, I struggle with this dilemma in my head often. Or rather struggle about thinking to the future and how I'm going to handle it. Dont currently fly a chainsaw in the tree too often. My boss is a former daily climber turned soft gut nifty lift user. Hes been in the trade for a long time and is quite skilled. But I see him 1 hand it a massive percent of the time. I dont get the opportunity to see him cut while climbing much. but in the lift, theres a ton of cut/catch/throw.

So, I would love to get the most common hypothetical in my head answered. You are removing a bunch of larger branches on one side of the tree with breakable homeowner property below. There isnt much to smoothly rig off of, but you could probably 1 hand cut/catch/throw. What do you do?

That may not be well thought out but appreciate all responses

:b
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Good rigging, often. Sometimes good climbing with slings to hold pieces while I stow my saw.

If you want to learn the tricks to be productive, nothing beats working with at least one (preferably several) climbers far better than you are.
I would have been a much better climber by now if I had a skilled mentor beyond the two-year mark. Sometimes the efficient way to do things within the rules really is to just go out there and do it.
 
Lupin_IV said:
As a new climber, I struggle with this dilemma in my head often. Or rather struggle about thinking to the future and how I'm going to handle it. Dont currently fly a chainsaw in the tree too often. My boss is a former daily climber turned soft gut nifty lift user. Hes been in the trade for a long time and is quite skilled. But I see him 1 hand it a massive percent of the time. I dont get the opportunity to see him cut while climbing much. but in the lift, theres a ton of cut/catch/throw.

So, I would love to get the most common hypothetical in my head answered. You are removing a bunch of larger branches on one side of the tree with breakable homeowner property below. There isnt much to smoothly rig off of, but you could probably 1 hand cut/catch/throw. What do you do?

That may not be well thought out but appreciate all responses

:b
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We will do some creative rigging, or use snap cuts, which allow the climber to stow his saw before using both hands to manage the piece. If the piece must be managed with one hand, it’s small enough to cut with a handsaw.

We also use a basket lift, which has a two-man basket; at times we will use two men in the air, one cutting and the other managing the pieces. I forget the references, but OSHA does allow that sometimes if it can be done properly and safely, or at least they used to - I haven’t looked into it in years. It’s not a technique we use frequently, but it works well on the occasion we need it.
 
Tony said:
Keep two hands on the saw. You will become a better climber. Isn’t that what is all about?

There is a huge difference between 20 years experience and 6 months 120 times over.

Tony
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I appreciate the response and wise adage. Unfortunately my boss is well past that 20 year mark with what are definitely bad habits and an intense "go" mindset. My original comment is a serious inquiry in an effort to build good habits, not a comment on whether or not its futile to always use 2 hands cutting. In order to address that, I hope to bring up a scenario where using 1 hand is a quick, obvious solution and learn ways to successfully do it with 2.

:b
 
Lupin_IV said:
I appreciate the response and wise adage. Unfortunately my boss is well past that 20 year mark with what are definitely bad habits and an intense "go" mindset. My original comment is a serious inquiry in an effort to build good habits, not a comment on whether or not its futile to always use 2 hands cutting. In order to address that, I hope to bring up a scenario where using 1 hand is a quick, obvious solution and learn ways to successfully do it with 2.

:b
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But the most likely scenario is that he is well past his 20th first year.


On that two man basket thing: that is terrifying. I'll 1-hand a rear handle before I cut within a couple of feet of someone else. Rules be damned.
 
I wasn't going to dive further into this horse beating...but I'll assume that you, @Lupin_IV are looking for some more details. Read more threads here. You have to decide for yourself. there are very good arborists on both sides of the fence on this one.

I'll summarize my experience: Until you decide that there is always another way, you will find more and more excuses where one-handing is "necessary". There is talk about that rare circumstance where one-handing is the safest option. I haven't found that...but I'm willing to grant that others have. However, if we roll with that what % of your cuts should that be? 0.1? 1%? 20%? 50%?....more? From what I have observed, many (certainly not all) who make that argument seem to end up closer to 50% than 1%. Suggests to me they don't take it seriously and are just looking for an excuse to do it they way they always have.

Is it slower to always 1-hand it. Yes, there are times it will be. It is also slower to drive the posted speed limit of 35 instead of 95 through town. It is slower to put on chaps. It is slower to rappel than jump out of the tree. Laws and regulations or not, some things just make sense to protect yourself. I have decide that for me and my employees keeping 2 hands on a running saw is one of those things.

A few things that I do:
*Rigging - this doesn't always need to be 700lb pieces - I'll send a 4" diameter branch down on a line if that is the best way to get it down safely.
*Smaller pieces
*Make most of the cut with a chainsaw then finish with handsaw
*If there is nothing big enough to rig off of, you are almost certainly cutting small enough pieces to use a handsaw. When that is not the case, cut it in smaller pieces and rig off of the "stub" you are leaving, just moving that rigging point back as you go.
 
Lupin_IV said:
I appreciate the response and wise adage. Unfortunately my boss is well past that 20 year mark with what are definitely bad habits and an intense "go" mindset. My original comment is a serious inquiry in an effort to build good habits, not a comment on whether or not its futile to always use 2 hands cutting. In order to address that, I hope to bring up a scenario where using 1 hand is a quick, obvious solution and learn ways to successfully do it with 2.

:b
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I can’t directly address your palm pruning issue as I have very limited experience with them.

I would suggest as other‘s have here is if a chainsaw is the right tool for that task. You may be asking the wrong question.

I applaud you working to be a better climber that continues to learn.

And while life is rarely so black and white and decisions have many influences, I will say that all of us will become the sum of the people we most often associate/work with. Choose wisely.

Tony
 
ATH said:
A few things that I do...
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That list should get you using both hands on just about everything. Great post. I would only add two items to the list, if a person is really interested in using their noodle.

* Never rule out a simple speedline. Even in the tightest quarters, with fragile targets, you can always cut small pieces into even smaller ones and zip 'em out. A 25'/4" branch? Speedline choked around 2" diameter point and groundie holding the other end. I've even tied it to a riding lawnmower. Slings? These are very light pieces... 1/4" El Cheapo nylon 3-strand cut into 2 or 3 foot pieces and knots work fine. Whittle the branch down in a few pieces, move speedline, repeat. For speedline anchor, I just use nylon runners and a steel carabiner on the end of the speedline. Probably not practical for palms.

* Two hands on a saw requires good positioning and stability. Never rule out using a haul line (again, cheap 1/4" rope is fine) to pull up a second climb system and learn to operate the saw while keeping your eye on multiple lines. If you're worried about cutting a line and the expense, then just throw a simple DdRT hitchclimber setup onto some inexpensive 12 or 16 strand line. You'll be using this to just get good positioning and control, it doesn't need to be fancy. A 100' hank of polyolefin core (lightweight) 12 strand will get you down to the ground from 50' and doesn't weigh a ton. Haul it around with you until you get the tricky stuff done and start choppin' and droppin' again. Of course, you can use a short SRT system in this way, too. How long do you really need for this work? I get by with 75' of KM-3 Max about 90% of the time.

My point here is really about just thinking about a way that works for you and trying it. Does it sound like a lot of extra work that will slow you down? Rig up something simple with what you have on hand and try it on a job that doesn't have a tight completion schedule, and test it for yourself. I'm betting you'll think of ways to make it faster and more doable on your own, and come to realize that if something makes you feel safer and smarter, you can make up the extra time by getting smarter about other things that slow you down. For example, I figured out that if I need to go out on a long limb over a target, that if I just whittle it down in small pieces, it wasn't really any slower... because I work solo a lot, and I'd have to cut it up on the ground, anyway, and now I don't need to do that. If the pile under the tree is big stuff, I'd have to come down and cut it up and go back up, which is really a time waste, so with the small stuff I can just let it pile up. You have to figure out how things work best for your way of doing things and make it all mesh. My methods probably won't work for you, but everything you try will give you an idea that just might work, and that teaches your brain problem solving skills... which is something that works for your entire life.
 
There are so many tricks.
A quick (like seconds) cinch and moving your lanyard to your central ring can have you steady on some very small stuff without trusting the minuscule twigs on the sides to hold anything.
Another thing I've done many times is a small span rig to set several pieces clear of a roof.

CARRY SOME SORT OF LITTLE LOOPS ON YOU WITH CARABINERS

They solve all sorts of problems.
I've seen guys stow them in a lot of ways, but my favorite is to take a 24" loop (it makes 12" collapsed) and pull it between both hands and give about six quick twists and clip the ends where my fingers are holding. It takes a couple of seconds and the twist sucks everything up tight so that it doesn't snag. A 48" loop just gets doubled over before the exact same process.
Quickly deploying slings can make very safe, very controlled things very productive things.

You could choke the trunk of your palm, pop three slings around three fronds, clip them all to the anchor, cut the three fronds and toss, toss, toss after you let your saw dangle (even still running) and quickly girth them to the next ones.
 

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Sometimes a train is going down the tracks in one direction, then you see it going the other way after only a few moments. It's disconcerting, to say the least, but you get used to it.

I've been accused of throwing the switches, myself. For the life of me, I can't imagine why.
 
I'm the "palm guy"... Ooooh, I don't like the sound of that. Hope that never comes out of me again. I don't climb them, though. ever.
Anyway, sorry to hijack the train. Just learning this thing. I don't even know how to tag people yet. I'm pretty social media inept for a 29-year-old.
Thanks to everyone for all the tips and consideration.
 
Paul Lloyd-Jones said:
I'm the "palm guy"... Ooooh, I don't like the sound of that. Hope that never comes out of me again. I don't climb them, though. ever.
Anyway, sorry to hijack the train. Just learning this thing. I don't even know how to tag people yet. I'm pretty social media inept for a 29-year-old.
Thanks to everyone for all the tips and consideration.
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You're fine. There's a reply button below every post that quotes that post in your post.
Sorry about the name calling... I guess I just assumed you climb them. It's easy to do when you would rather climb almost anything.
Even in a lift, loops are magic. As someone who runs a 2511 (which is code for "I 1-hand my chainsaw") I still swear it's worth carrying a couple.
 
Forcing myself to carry up 1" loopie webbing slings and krabs EVERY TIME, was one best things I ever did. Instead of special extra steps to plot, call for wait and pull up vs. time lost.
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Only then could I begin to imagine how flexible a utility of connection to load or as anchor, redirect, bulk lowering , hanging some weight cut from one side of hitch point to now be on the other changing handling balance much more, speed line, vertical speed line to knock something free , hold drink, saw, hand grip, foot loop,extension etc. etc.!
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Modular , multi-use connections, lending to series of cuts, etc. of efficient work flow options.
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Baby Dyneema sling made even better. Like Foins krabs, easier to see if 1 leg of skinny Dyneema kicks past gate. Prefer sling in capture but as a Round Turn rather than single Turn. Hugging solid leg as farthest from gate side, least amount of deformity between krab and load and some free ranging/self equalizing rotation of wear and pulls.
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Want enough free slide of krab, so loads legs evenly on angled pull. Enough sling rotation for even wear.
 
Paul Lloyd-Jones said:
I'm the "palm guy"... Ooooh, I don't like the sound of that. Hope that never comes out of me again. I don't climb them, though. ever.
Anyway, sorry to hijack the train. Just learning this thing. I don't even know how to tag people yet. I'm pretty social media inept for a 29-year-old.
Thanks to everyone for all the tips and consideration.
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YUP - in MN too and no palms here!

Listen///reread///reread everything @*useless info* has to say. It may seam like it's written in code - but after really looking at it - it makes sense. Not at first - not 2-3-4 times later - but when it does ------- IT'S GOLD.

He brings up and holds true what is basic physics/science/even geometry - truly is - and we should know, but only know from past experience which can and is useful.
 
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