Discipline

Jem4417 said:
Should they supply the hass,foot ascender, rope wrench, micro pulleys, multiple ropes for double and single, rope bags, gear bags, tree motion saddles, kask hard hats, Sean head sets, carbon fiber hooks? They pay for some but It's not much. I just figured most places are like that. They pay for the cheapest and we cough up for the nice stuff
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If you are an employee they should supply everything, but you will use what they give you. If you want to use your own gear that's on you. A cool boss would compensate you though.
 
Jem4417 said:
No one left the ground. It took us fifteen minutes to cut down the jap maple and chip it up
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On the ground or not, employees on company time means the company is liable for injury or damage. A little extra brush on a job for $20 bucks is no big deal, but a $100 removal on another property is crossing the line. I am on all my job sites so this isn't a problem , but for most companies , like Royce said there has to be a no tolerance policy.
 
If my guys took 20-40 for extra work, and told me about it, I'd care less because of our particular relationship. If a request came in for removal I'd expect to have a consultation with the client to establish why the oak or jap maple needs to be removed, especially if it is the last tree there. 50-70% of the removal requests I get are redirected to pruning, often reduction. retaining not only the tree but the function of privacy and balance it adds to the architecture of the house. If an employee cut a live (don't know if the one jem4417 refers to was dead or just 'too big') jap maple for a neighbour I'd be pissed at not having the chance to educate/inform the client. If the tree was dead and my employee said he cut it for $20 I'd say keep it. If he got $50 cause it was a bigger jap then I'd want a cut and he'd want to give me a cut. Or should I say I'd give him 20 of the cut. And true as stated, the company really deserves the full cut. The employee deserves the wage. Depends on the employee too. The guy bringing the sharp saw every day gets $30. The guy bringing nothing, gets paid for his time. That's what a wage is. Who knew. The 1 % every two months is a joke. Not enough and besides the point. The guy bringing the sharp saw and gear gets around $30 an hour. The guy who comes with boots gets $15-20 and a pair of boots once a year. So if you have a sharp saw and good gear just set your price and fix and maintain your own stuff. Ask for the wage you want and if you don't get it then leave. If you leave and can't get that much elsewhere then your either not worth it, or you can't communicate well or you are in the wrong part of the country. As stated, in most areas climbers are highly demanded.
Random customers aren't necessarily innocent either. They see opportunities to throw their 'small tree' in as an extra after the boss leaves.
Plus, it's a quick phone call. Hey boss,
I've got a neighbour who wants a dead tree cut. Boss answers. Go ahead, give me the money later. Then the boss can give 10 or 20 tip to the employee later, or not. He already paid his wage and bought him lunch.
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damn this thread took off. I appreciate the feedback. I still think my particular company could have handled it differently because I'd been given mixed details of what is acceptable. They re wrote their company policy over this which in my opinion proves there was a lack of clarification. I understand that it was fundamentally wrong but our particular job is hard as shit, dangerous as fuck and pays shit. So I was just hoping for a little flexibility for an employee whose never been written up, who shows up everyday, who steps up and gives tailgate meetings, safety meetings and training day presentations , brings in a ton of their own stuff and promotes their tree service constantly.
 
Stuff from other threads was from when I worked at the utility company. And in other threads I'm more frustrated about an unregulated industry where wages are low for what is expected. This place isn't bad and the guys there are awesome but this was just out of left field and it really pissed me off. I will probably leave but I'm waiting for our quarterly safety bonus and yearly safety bonus and I can't just leave in the middle of winter with out some forethought to where I'm going with a mortgage to pay and Christmas around the corner
 
Jem4417 said:
damn this thread took off. I appreciate the feedback. I still think my particular company could have handled it differently because I'd been given mixed details of what is acceptable. They re wrote their company policy over this which in my opinion proves there was a lack of clarification. I understand that it was fundamentally wrong but our particular job is hard as shit, dangerous as fuck and pays shit. So I was just hoping for a little flexibility for an employee whose never been written up, who shows up everyday, who steps up and gives tailgate meetings, safety meetings and training day presentations , brings in a ton of their own stuff and promotes their tree service constantly.
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Yes I see where you might be coming from. If you've been mistreated and your boss has clearly crossed lines re equipment or pay, then maybe taking a side job and justifying it as a tip isn't so bad. It may not be right, but it may not be wrong really either. It's justice on one hand and following the rules on the other. In most situations the rules apply. Rarely, exceptions can be made and what looks guilty is actually fair. It certainly could be dealt with better in a variety ways. Initially probably dealt with better by the employer. and it sounds like you feel like your back was against the wall. Leading again to the well stated 'leave the place' vote.


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JD3000 said:
Looks like he lost a bet or something...

Jack, you prefer getting away from utilty work? I would imagine so, just interested in hearing both sides of the coin. I've never been involved with the utility side.
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Lol I went from utility work to residential. There's a lot cooler guys doing residential and the works more fun and the limited policies are a plus but there's better opportunities to leave the field in utility work as well as more overtime and less badgering to go go go because the owners are so separated from the field. The place I work for now is not terrible but I have little faith that the management team there now will be able to help me grow. And after their fumbling to stand strong on this incident it's clear they are incompetent in implementing fair discipline while retaining respect as managers
 
I cant speak to your managers but perhaps things are settled now. Ask about what you can do there to move up in the pecking order over time and make more $$$.
 
Steve Connally said:
I appreciate the sentiment but if you think the job makes the character you're mistaken. There are 500 people on my department. I can count on one hand the number of them i'd trust with my kid or my car keys. It's become a job like any other. The schedule draws most and the fact it's nearly impossible to get fired. It used to be really something completely different. Special, a family, a brotherhood. P.C. has ruined that completely. Thanks though Royce, not trying to poo poo on your sentiment.
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As a side tangent. Or a derail. Or a rerail. A right turn. Or a left one. or a wrong one.

I'm seeing a lot of climbers who feel under appreciated. I'm guessing Steve, that you are part of a union. That union makes it better for the employee and worse for the employer. Right now the employer in tree care might have the upper hand because our industry is not unionized. But competition corrects this. I think for the most part though, established tree bosses treat employees well. And if they aren't and the employee is, then the employee leaves.
The bigger thing I'm trying to open up for discussion, is that this trade may be following the others. As an example, have our conference attendees gone from a group that looks like company, to a group that looks like a crowd? The change is a grey area but as a group goes from 60-400 (Ontario chapter conference), things change. For optimism sake, this change still includes a population of much more than five people I'd leave my kids with. I feel that the Ontario and international groups are full of genuine, good, cool people, but in large groups I suppose some people lose their cool. Some may put on a show. Others may feel anonymous and break a rule. Leaving people thinking you broke other rules too. 400 is still a small group and I enjoy the company of the majority. After all, even a group of 50 has at least one bad apple. And a good many apples who were a bad apple a few times. I really appreciate the passionate tree guys I've met. I see a desire to care for trees as much as I've seen a desire to make a buck. Or do I? And I see many that are initially out for a buck but do great tree care as well. Another beautiful thing about competition. And people in general. They want meaningful work. And money. The world is full of beautiful people. But the world is also in a time that provides opportunities to bring out the worst in people.
So is tree care becoming more of a money and job industry or more of a profession? And how can the question be written better to get to what I don't know I'm trying to say? Are clean lines of communication and friendly competition being replaced with broken telephone, fierce competition, and phoniness? And do I have a Holden catcher in the rye complex?

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I would agree that there are some who feel they are practicing and continue to learn their craft and many who feel they just have a job.

I suppose it's up to the company or individual to seperate themselves and create their own niche. Healthy competition amongst true peers can make everyone better.
 
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