Crazy_Jimmy
Participating member
- Location
- Texas
Am I missing something because I never found a Rads system as being fast.
Descending
- Thread starter BostonBull
- Start date
[ QUOTE ]
You know what...a Rig could be used DdRT I think.
[/ QUOTE ]
And you are quite right. I just got back in from trying this and it works fine. However, there needs to be some separation on the bridge attachment to allow for lever movement.
Dave
You know what...a Rig could be used DdRT I think.
[/ QUOTE ]
And you are quite right. I just got back in from trying this and it works fine. However, there needs to be some separation on the bridge attachment to allow for lever movement.
Dave
- Location
- North of Boston
the system has to be able to be used DdRT only, no SRT or DRT. Takes too long to pull the rope out DRT, and SRT wastes far too much time during crane picks.
Ilike the idea of a f8 under the hitch off the side D of the saddle. You can still lanyard in if need be, and it is fast to install. Will there be too much friction with this setup and DdRT?
Kep the ideas flowing, lots of good stuff here I am going to try and implement
Ilike the idea of a f8 under the hitch off the side D of the saddle. You can still lanyard in if need be, and it is fast to install. Will there be too much friction with this setup and DdRT?
Kep the ideas flowing, lots of good stuff here I am going to try and implement
- Location
- Clarksville, TN
Works fine all day every day, Bull. Burn it up!
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Why would anyone use a POW on their harness when a F8 is more controllable and smaller?
- Location
- North of Boston
[ QUOTE ]
Why would anyone use a POW on their harness when a F8 is more controllable and smaller?
[/ QUOTE ]
maybe the ability to lock off quickly and securely with no worries? This got me thinking as well about the mini POW
Why would anyone use a POW on their harness when a F8 is more controllable and smaller?
[/ QUOTE ]
maybe the ability to lock off quickly and securely with no worries? This got me thinking as well about the mini POW
- Location
- North of Boston
[ QUOTE ]
i still don't see how drt is slower than Ddrt during crane work; rope in a throw out bag, zip down, pull rope, stuff, repeat. unless you guys are doing something deferent. a mini porty could be used in a hitch climber style configuration, sounds interesting.
[/ QUOTE ]
You have to find the center of the rope every time you set up, this can be done by marking the rope, but is one more change being made, and one more thing for the climber to think about. You would also have to pull half of your rope all the way through the shackle/ring, OR take the time to remove ther shackle/ring everytime you tie in, because of using DRT. We are trying to stay as close to the current way as possible.
i still don't see how drt is slower than Ddrt during crane work; rope in a throw out bag, zip down, pull rope, stuff, repeat. unless you guys are doing something deferent. a mini porty could be used in a hitch climber style configuration, sounds interesting.
[/ QUOTE ]
You have to find the center of the rope every time you set up, this can be done by marking the rope, but is one more change being made, and one more thing for the climber to think about. You would also have to pull half of your rope all the way through the shackle/ring, OR take the time to remove ther shackle/ring everytime you tie in, because of using DRT. We are trying to stay as close to the current way as possible.
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
[ QUOTE ]
i still don't see how drt is slower than Ddrt during crane work; rope in a throw out bag, zip down, pull rope, stuff, repeat. unless you guys are doing something deferent. a mini porty could be used in a hitch climber style configuration, sounds interesting.
[/ QUOTE ]
A mini porty will handle both legs of the rope identically and simultaneously.
Ideally, you should be able to handle each leg simultaneously, OR stop one side and run the other.
This solves the problem of having to find rope center. You can adjust on the fly if you want, liker you see a wad of rope on the ground, and your splice, or stopper knot end is in the air, stop that side, and continue descent; you are now DdRT and re-equilibrating the rope.
Marking your rope's center is a very good idea.
Cochran makes a good point, but even a mini porty is rather big and cumbersome, but allows good lockoff options.
Figure 8's twist the rope, Munter hitch twists the rope. Racks are horrible to tend slack with and are slow on and off, but control really well and don't twist the rope. I'd choose one with hyperbars for locking off.
RADS has excessive pieces and is a 3:1 setup. Boston needs safety, simplicity and speed, thinking a 2:1 DdRT is best, but 1:1 is more ideal, like Jeff Cochran suggests, being able to instantly drop into 2:1 if needed.
Boston, could you give more detail on how you're using your crane? When I do crane work I never leave tree. Why 30 - 50 up and downs? 30 - 50 trees? I'm thoroughly intrigued.
i still don't see how drt is slower than Ddrt during crane work; rope in a throw out bag, zip down, pull rope, stuff, repeat. unless you guys are doing something deferent. a mini porty could be used in a hitch climber style configuration, sounds interesting.
[/ QUOTE ]
A mini porty will handle both legs of the rope identically and simultaneously.
Ideally, you should be able to handle each leg simultaneously, OR stop one side and run the other.
This solves the problem of having to find rope center. You can adjust on the fly if you want, liker you see a wad of rope on the ground, and your splice, or stopper knot end is in the air, stop that side, and continue descent; you are now DdRT and re-equilibrating the rope.
Marking your rope's center is a very good idea.
Cochran makes a good point, but even a mini porty is rather big and cumbersome, but allows good lockoff options.
Figure 8's twist the rope, Munter hitch twists the rope. Racks are horrible to tend slack with and are slow on and off, but control really well and don't twist the rope. I'd choose one with hyperbars for locking off.
RADS has excessive pieces and is a 3:1 setup. Boston needs safety, simplicity and speed, thinking a 2:1 DdRT is best, but 1:1 is more ideal, like Jeff Cochran suggests, being able to instantly drop into 2:1 if needed.
Boston, could you give more detail on how you're using your crane? When I do crane work I never leave tree. Why 30 - 50 up and downs? 30 - 50 trees? I'm thoroughly intrigued.
- Location
- North of Boston
We sometimes dont leave the tree for 2 or 3 picks either, but most times we are coming down 30-50' at a time. We use large cpapcity all terrain cranes, which gives us the ability to take larger pieces (when the drop zone allows) and also gives less exposure to the climber in the tree. Often times we have the capacity to pick 60-70' trees in one piece and feed them into our grapple fed whole tree chippers. The less a climber is in the tree, the less exposure he has to hazards associated to making cuts while in the tree.
Either way we are a high paced crew, and the friction hitches are costing good $. If there is a device or system we can start expoloring I am all ears.
Either way we are a high paced crew, and the friction hitches are costing good $. If there is a device or system we can start expoloring I am all ears.
Half inch split tail with a blakes hitch you should be fine.
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
I would frickin love to work with you guys.
So slack tending is not an issue, and just occasional locking off. You ordinarily just need to set your rig and then bail out.
I'm thinking you should look into a Titanium Scarab, and work 11 mm lines. It will dissipate heat better than the stainless steel one. I have the stainless version, though I don't care for it as far as moving up, down and all around the crown, but for what you do, it could be the cat's meow.
Mine hangs unused. I gave it 6 months of workout, but id doesn't tend slack very well- a magnitude better than a friction hitch, but annoying nonetheless.
Very fast on and off. Works sorta like a rack, but more compact and no multiple bars, just one. All kinds of lockoff options. Easy learning curve, pretty dummy-proof. Quite secure, It's popular among search and rescue. It goes SRT, DdRT or DbRT. It should last forever.
Burning through cords sucks time in ordering & replacement and requires the 2:1 system. 1:1 will give you the speed you want, WEAR GLOVES because your belay hand needs to be protected from the friction it will see when coming to screeching halts.
So slack tending is not an issue, and just occasional locking off. You ordinarily just need to set your rig and then bail out.
I'm thinking you should look into a Titanium Scarab, and work 11 mm lines. It will dissipate heat better than the stainless steel one. I have the stainless version, though I don't care for it as far as moving up, down and all around the crown, but for what you do, it could be the cat's meow.
Mine hangs unused. I gave it 6 months of workout, but id doesn't tend slack very well- a magnitude better than a friction hitch, but annoying nonetheless.
Very fast on and off. Works sorta like a rack, but more compact and no multiple bars, just one. All kinds of lockoff options. Easy learning curve, pretty dummy-proof. Quite secure, It's popular among search and rescue. It goes SRT, DdRT or DbRT. It should last forever.
Burning through cords sucks time in ordering & replacement and requires the 2:1 system. 1:1 will give you the speed you want, WEAR GLOVES because your belay hand needs to be protected from the friction it will see when coming to screeching halts.
Crazy_Jimmy
Participating member
- Location
- Texas
sounds like your making big money per hour,seems like some cordage for a dollar a two per foot shouldnt be a big expense.Use a figure 8 below the hitch.
- Location
- North of Boston
[ QUOTE ]
sounds like your making big money per hour,seems like some cordage for a dollar a two per foot shouldnt be a big expense.Use a figure 8 below the hitch.
[/ QUOTE ]
bigger cranes cost bigger money. it all washes out in the end.
sounds like your making big money per hour,seems like some cordage for a dollar a two per foot shouldnt be a big expense.Use a figure 8 below the hitch.
[/ QUOTE ]
bigger cranes cost bigger money. it all washes out in the end.
- Location
- North of Boston
[ QUOTE ]
I would frickin love to work with you guys.
So slack tending is not an issue, and just occasional locking off. You ordinarily just need to set your rig and then bail out.
I'm thinking you should look into a Titanium Scarab, and work 11 mm lines. It will dissipate heat better than the stainless steel one. I have the stainless version, though I don't care for it as far as moving up, down and all around the crown, but for what you do, it could be the cat's meow.
Mine hangs unused. I gave it 6 months of workout, but id doesn't tend slack very well- a magnitude better than a friction hitch, but annoying nonetheless.
Very fast on and off. Works sorta like a rack, but more compact and no multiple bars, just one. All kinds of lockoff options. Easy learning curve, pretty dummy-proof. Quite secure, It's popular among search and rescue. It goes SRT, DdRT or DbRT. It should last forever.
Burning through cords sucks time in ordering & replacement and requires the 2:1 system.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats an interesting device. Does it allow fast descents on DdRT, or is that too much friction/not enough weight for the device?
I would frickin love to work with you guys.
So slack tending is not an issue, and just occasional locking off. You ordinarily just need to set your rig and then bail out.
I'm thinking you should look into a Titanium Scarab, and work 11 mm lines. It will dissipate heat better than the stainless steel one. I have the stainless version, though I don't care for it as far as moving up, down and all around the crown, but for what you do, it could be the cat's meow.
Mine hangs unused. I gave it 6 months of workout, but id doesn't tend slack very well- a magnitude better than a friction hitch, but annoying nonetheless.
Very fast on and off. Works sorta like a rack, but more compact and no multiple bars, just one. All kinds of lockoff options. Easy learning curve, pretty dummy-proof. Quite secure, It's popular among search and rescue. It goes SRT, DdRT or DbRT. It should last forever.
Burning through cords sucks time in ordering & replacement and requires the 2:1 system.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats an interesting device. Does it allow fast descents on DdRT, or is that too much friction/not enough weight for the device?
so when that crane is payed off you can stop burning cordage?
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
DdRT is just not fast because it's a 2:1 system. Can I ask why you feel so strongly about sticking with that? It's OK, but I sense a sort of anxiety about advancing to a 1:1 system
The Scarab will do 2:1 just fine, but the friction at the tie-in point adds an unknown variable and will be somewhat different every tree depending on the circumference over which it courses, texture of the bark, wet/dry, moss, etc.
If you control all the friction off the hardware in front of you, there will be absolute consistency every time. This is where you pick up speed; predictability and reliable control.
The Scarab will do 2:1 just fine, but the friction at the tie-in point adds an unknown variable and will be somewhat different every tree depending on the circumference over which it courses, texture of the bark, wet/dry, moss, etc.
If you control all the friction off the hardware in front of you, there will be absolute consistency every time. This is where you pick up speed; predictability and reliable control.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Scarab seems like a great option!
My concern with using tools like this with treeworkers is that they require the climber to change their muscle memory. Typical muscle memory for tree climbers is 'let go/lock off'. With rap devices this will make a groundfall likely. The use of a friction hitch in combo with the rap device is important during the muscle memory re-training time. Or...the team-mate/belayer being there with their hands on the rope to be the belayer in case the climber went back into tree climber mode.
My concern with using tools like this with treeworkers is that they require the climber to change their muscle memory. Typical muscle memory for tree climbers is 'let go/lock off'. With rap devices this will make a groundfall likely. The use of a friction hitch in combo with the rap device is important during the muscle memory re-training time. Or...the team-mate/belayer being there with their hands on the rope to be the belayer in case the climber went back into tree climber mode.
New threads New posts
-
test
-
-
-
KBNest -Midline Attachable SRS Canopy Anchor.
- Started by TreeSteward
- Replies: 2
-
-
-
