cornus nuttalli split/strange cobra config.

Another removal. You should give the customer the facts. Extensive seperation which will lead to more problems. This is a no win situation. Well, you would be winning from the profit of money wasted. Remove the tree and spend hard earned money on a nice tree that would be good for that area.
 
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If I was cabling a tree that beat up, I'd prefer something up top that was static, not dynamic.

The leaders tied in unison - themselves - become dynamic.

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interesting point. i think i'd still go non-invasive with this elderly old gal..



[/ QUOTE ]The inside of that trunk must be 75% decay material. Probably not too much more solid than this topped and dissected big leaf maple attached...

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i don't think so. i've removed plenty of trashed old big leaf maples and older nuttallii as well. nuttalli compartmentalizes WAY better in my experience. i think there's plenty of meat for a steel rod to hang onto, especially as the decay is on the inside of the column - dead wood sandwiched between live wood, bound together with steel hardware. my guess is if we installed the steel bracing the tree would be more likely to fail by windthrow than at the crack. just my gut sense.
 
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Another removal. You should give the customer the facts. Extensive seperation which will lead to more problems. This is a no win situation. Well, you would be winning from the profit of money wasted. Remove the tree and spend hard earned money on a nice tree that would be good for that area.

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thanks for your thoughtful and open minded response zorro.

my customer has all the information i have about this tree, and i went to the trouble of posting this thread and sending her the link partly to give her access to other opinions. i have so far charged her nothing for all of this time spent.
 
thanks for all the replies everyone. i'm out of town for the weekend but will have a conversation w/my customer next week when i'm back to determine her chosen course of action - partly based i'm sure on the broader context of your replies.

god i love treebuzz!

anyone else care to weigh in..? tom? guy? scott baker?
k.
 
my customer has all the information i have about this tree, and i went to the trouble of posting this thread and sending her the link partly to give her access to other opinions. i have so far charged her nothing for all of this time spent.

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I hope not.
 
The decay is probably worse than you think

Do you think those cuts and that big chunk of deadwood in the image have decay that dead-ends at the point it appears to end? Not likely. Several decayed areas - and big.

That tree has weak decayed deadwood going "FEET" down into the leader or trunk.

If you can't visualize that kind of decay, consider passing the project along to another arborist, so the bracing or removal is managed appropriately.

That tree is probably as bad as the maple image I posted, and much more deteriorated than the sweet gum in this attachment.

Actually, as decayed as that tree is going to be, removal is probably the only professional recommendation that can be provided at this point. The only option from a safety and liability standpoint. That means removal, or withdrawing from the project altogether.

It's rarely an easy task when folks become sentimentally attached to rotten plant material.
 

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nuttallii/cobra config.

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If you can't visualize that kind of decay, consider passing the project along to another arborist, so the bracing or removal is managed appropriately.


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i see no reason to make this personal, just because you and i have different opinions. bear in mind that, as you said in your first post, it's hard to tell when you haven't seen the tree. i never suggested there wasn't decay. what i did say is that i thought there was sufficient live material for a steel rod to grab onto. if there is 6" of live wood along the outside of either stem, which i believe there is, and two rods are installed at 90 degrees or so to each other then i think the steel will more than make up for the weakening of the trunk caused by decay and the split.

you say that removal is the only professional recommendation that can be made. i think there is room for different perspectives and assessments - i don't asume my opinion is the only correct one. you seem to feel strongly that your opinion here is the only correct opinion. good for you - i admire courage of conviction. in the meanwhile, i'm going to listen to a few other opinions in the name of helping my client make an educated decision.
 
Re: nuttallii/cobra config.

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i see no reason to make this personal, just because you and i have different opinions. bear in mind that, as you said in your first post,

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Do you view posts as "personal" if they venture away from your opinion, but "impersonal" if they are repeating your thoughts, or in agreement with other forum users?

Anyhow, the image shows how bad the decay can be, how lacking the canopy is, and how severe the crack is.

The tree has been described here in what may be paraphrased as on it's last leg.

Unless the images are concealing something marvelous, they appear to be of a basket case that one tree service has bandaged in some unusual way.

One image alone looks like a hand inserted in a large gap below shoulder level? Is that my imagination from not being there, or is the gap truly down that far? If it is, which I suspect, the dead dry tissue in-between is going to be significant.

If that hand is near knee to waist level, the decay is going to reach clear down into the base, possibly into the roots.

The decay may well reach to ground level anyway, even if the damaged or weakened areas begin above head level.

The sweet gum in the image that I posted, only had a gap about 1/4 to 1/2 inch where the leaders met, and we can all see how some discolored deadwood reaches 2 to 3 feet below the union.
 
Re: nuttallii/cobra config.

You might want to pull out the hazard trees in urban areas book and do an assesment on the 12 point scale. See where this tree rates.

Another good resource is the last two CEU articles in the ISA Arborist magazine. These deal with hazard assesment in urban areas.

Good luck in the decision.

One last question, is this on a school route?
 
Re: nuttallii/cobra config.

Hey Kathy, Interesting point came to mind. If this was actually "your customer", the Cobra placement would not exist. How about using "the customer"? I would not ever refer to anyone as "my customer", sounds too much like an ego issue.
 
Re: nuttallii/cobra config.

thanks for the links tree frog. i called this client mine because we were called in to do other work in her yard, which we did, and then the dogwood came into play. i have worked for her, i will bill her for that work next week - what would you call her? can we quit the sniping? this is about a tree.
 
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Another removal. You should give the customer the facts. Extensive seperation which will lead to more problems. This is a no win situation. Well, you would be winning from the profit of money wasted. Remove the tree and spend hard earned money on a nice tree that would be good for that area.

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Did you just mean the extensive trunk structural damage? Or were you referring to what appears to be very weak branching similar to co-dominant problems, higher up. This one tree alone could fill an entire class session on tree defects.

The proximity to the sidewalk does not improve matters either.
 
Re: nuttallii/cobra config.

My apologies. Sometimes I forget that most tree climbers are pre-Madonnas. This is a tree issue, but you seem defensive at times so I took the initiative.
 
Re: nuttallii/cobra config.

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My apologies. Sometimes I forget that most tree climbers are pre-Madonnas. This is a tree issue, but you seem defensive at times so I took the initiative.

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Xylemxorro...When you first posted about the "customer" thing, I did not agree with you, as I'd call someone my customer too - occassionally anyhow.

But "defensive" as you mentioned came to mind to some degree, when she posted toward me about making things "personal" - since it wasn't.

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(kathy_holzer)i see no reason to make this personal, just because you and i have different opinions

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Here's a quote from my post that she replied to...

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(mdvaden) <font color="brown"> If </font> you can't visualize that kind of decay, consider passing the project along to another arborist, so the bracing or removal is managed appropriately.

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I highlighted that "if" to indicate that the reply was not written as an absolute. No conclusion about the arborists ability or personality was supplied.

<font color="brown"> If </font> an arborist can visualize the decay, then the other choices are available as well.

As far as "most" tree climbers being pre-madonnas (prima donnas) - that's not the impression I get from Oregon anyhow. I think its more prevalent in tree work than several other professions I've been exposed to; but not to any major degree.
 
Re: nuttallii/cobra config.

"i.e., someone who aspires to be as famous and successful as Madonna but fails because he/she is an untalented dumbass"

That is why I chose "pre-Madonna". I'm glad someone sees the humor in all this BS.
 
Kathy,

I was just musing on the question of what one should consider to be the location of the branch union, once an included bark situation has turned into an open splt. IOW, the original branch union was at the top of the crack, before it split. For purposes of determining installation height, does one now consider the union to be down at the bottom of the split?

But since you are talking about bolting too, I think the answer is that the uppermost bolt becomes the point from which to measure.
 
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