Compact Bulldog Bone

Hey john Kays I really like how you girth hitched those rock dogbones onto those adjusters, very smart. I wonder if that's worth doing on the bulldog bone? I've been using mine on alloy biners, petzl ok's and dmm ultra-O's but sometimes I wonder if the steel teardrop member there might cause premature wear on em..
 
JefLong said:
Hey john Kays I really like how you girth hitched those rock dogbones onto those adjusters, very smart. I wonder if that's worth doing on the bulldog bone? I've been using mine on alloy biners, petzl ok's and dmm ultra-O's but sometimes I wonder if the steel teardrop member there might cause premature wear on em..
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Yeah it was very smart...it was actually Gordon's suggestion. It gives it the flexibility to "swivel" so you can manipulate the adjuster from different angles. It is nice to have a soft connection too, you are right! Just like anything else inspect it regularly and don't cut it with your saw...;)
 
ok thanks gordon. I was wanting to ask about that. So I guess alloy biners is fine? Also, Ive just assumed the bone would prefer oval biners like most of these things, but I'm not sure if i read that anywhere specifically about your device like I know it says ovals only in the hitch climber docs, the rope runner docs etc. Are ovals the preferred connector ? cheers mate
 
Just some observations late at night after a couple of beers. Video quality isn't great and I forget some of the correct terms for the parts. Just some observations for anyone to further comment/observe. All ideas welcome.

I forgot to mention that the reason I reversed the Bone in the first place was so the rope can exit/enter from the opposite direction. I also like to 'release' the Bone much in the same way I used to release a friction hitch (with my hand around the far side of the bone/rope); maybe it's habit/a sort of safety crutch, I don't know. I like the fact that in 'releasing' the bone in this way I can then make it 'engage' again just by pushing up on the upper arm with my smallest finger (and the finger adjacent) - ie, the Bone upper arm can be pushed up or down from in between the middle of the fingers in your hand (that star trek hand signal just came to mind; I looked it up - the 'Vulcan Salute').

Still just starting low and slow - had a lot to take care of recently, and I really like to know the in's and out's of something before I trust it with my life.

I'd just like to say that these keyrings can catch on things, possibly causing the Bone to DISENGAGE causing FREEFALL - PROCEED WITH CAUTION!!

 
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@123Craig ..Some observations I've made about the bdb are . No need to engage the top arm to make you stop , if you need to do that , maybe your rope isn't right for you. I've have climbed for tests sake with the clips open and the rope is still hard pressed to come out of its position In the links , nothings impossible. I couldn't get it to come out when I left open and moved around. I created slack then flipped it,flopped it tipped it turned it up down all around then treated it as if it was life support , rope stayed put. I'd ditch those key rings persona lly, looks like more trouble than it's worth,catching on stuff. For what again ,. Side load issue on link ?? Am I getting that correctly? The bone is strong from what I gather.. The links are for timing chains in motors I think.. They handle heat and pulling force for miles and miles..We as climbers I don't believe can replicate that with even extreme climbing operations.Maybe I'm missing something, but I run it very hard its still working beautifully. Get ya a swivel instead of that revolver setup and get on with it. You have a hardy tool there. Very robust ..I've been loving that word lately for a description of the bone. Matches it well. Cheers!
 
Treetopflyer said:
@123Craig ..Some observations I've made about the bdb are . No need to engage the top arm to make you stop , if you need to do that , maybe your rope isn't right for you. I've have climbed for tests sake with the clips open and the rope is still hard pressed to come out of its position In the links , nothings impossible. I couldn't get it to come out when I left open and moved around. I created slack then flipped it,flopped it tipped it turned it up down all around then treated it as if it was life support , rope stayed put. I'd ditch those key rings persona lly, looks like more trouble than it's worth,catching on stuff. For what again ,. Side load issue on link ?? Am I getting that correctly? The bone is strong from what I gather.. The links are for timing chains in motors I think.. They handle heat and pulling force for miles and miles..We as climbers I don't believe can replicate that with even extreme climbing operations.Maybe I'm missing something, but I run it very hard its still working beautifully. Get ya a swivel instead of that revolver setup and get on with it. You have a hardy tool there. Very robust ..I've been loving that word lately for a description of the bone. Matches it well. Cheers!
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Ha - thanks for your reply Treetopflyer. Some good points to counter my own. I take it slow with new things - that's only part of the reason I'm not climbing on it yet; so many other things to do is the other reason.

I just want to make it clear to everyone that I'm going to be particularly annoying on here - as I will never have asked enough questions, and I will never have received enough answers. I will always believe that something can be better - even if it's the best. : ) I'll be asking some difficult questions of this device in the future.

Treetop - when you said 'No need to engage the top arm to make you stop.' - I was meaning only when you briefly un-weight it (say you lanyard in/stand up, ect) - then put your weight back on it. Almost like you'd need a quick flick of the hand to make sure it 'sets' on the rope (almost in the same way as we'd check a climbing hitch will 'grab' before we un-lanyard). The reason I set it like I tend a hitch just comes down to my own style/habit I guess.

The reason I may try the key rings/split rings is not so much because I have a fear of the rope coming out - more so to give the chain link pin (that the rope is bent against) more support than if it was just supported by the opposite side of the chain link (if/when the chain link clip pops off/up - I noticed it pops off/up quite easily during testing). I don't think it's possible that the chain link pin can have 'too much strength/support' - that's my reasoning, is all. You're not missing anything - of course, as you're climbing on the Bone - you already know way more than I do.

'Get ya a swivel instead of that revolver setup...' - No Sir - I'll stick with my revolver + tear drop - and love it! ; )
 
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honestly, i like the key ring deal instead of the cotter pins because i can swap bollards in about 30 - 45 seconds if i want to change between my removal line and my pruning line.
just don't leave any sort of snap/connector/attachment loop in the tear drop cause if it catches the key ring the right way, its buh bye, see you where stop.
personally experience its hard to start any descent if your setting the top arm by hand when you stop.
damn it Gordon this thing is so simple and awesome.

and i personally prefer symmetrical carabiners. when I've used HMS/williams style ones, they have a tendency to load funny in the middle of my climb. thats without a corner trap or something obviously, but I've had good luck with petzl Am'd and DMM ovals.
 
123Craig said:
....I'd just like to say that these keyrings can catch on things, possibly causing the Bone to DISENGAGE causing FREEFALL - PROCEED WITH CAUTION!!...
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I'm not a fan of your keyring add-ons and for the reasons you already know. You have increased potential problems without anything worthwhile to show for it.
 
Yeah, you should find something that wont get caught on pretty much anything it passes. I like the idea, not sure if the link needs it, but I like your thought there. If you wanted something there, I would suggest using a small bolt and nut or something like that rather than a ring, but I don't think it's needed. Like you said, that link hold the other side of the pin and gives it more balanced support. The range of play that that link sees never puts it off to where it no longer supports that pin. Are you worried the link will bust off and the pin will not have the strength to hold you? I check the links and the pins and the, well everything before, during, and after a climb. I don't worry about it, I just keep an eye on my system. I haven't had a single problem or failure with my Bulldog...knock on wood.
 
treegongfu said:
I think the bdb could be improved slightly with a one piece top arm.
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Wait, so the both sides machined out of a single piece of aluminum? Wouldn't that add weight and cost to the top arm? I haven't noticed a problem with them being separate. It would make it stronger, is that your idear?
:musculoso:
 
John_KAYS said:
Wait, so the both sides machined out of a single piece of aluminum? Wouldn't that add weight and cost to the top arm? I haven't noticed a problem with them being separate. It would make it stronger, is that your idear?
:musculoso:
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Interesting idea - maybe one that can be developed in the future.

The key rings/split rings are just an idea/trial at this stage - if I feel they are dangerous to me - I'll get smaller ones or remove them. I feel that the bottom arm may not benefit so much from it (possibly because there is less movement between the 2 arms. I'm not sure a small nut and bolt would fit, and whatever (if anything) is put there - has to be clean and smooth for the rope to pass around to be installed/taken off the rope.

When I say 'set the top arm of the bone' - I only mean if the bone is in the collapsed position (for whatever reason) - and you're just about to put your weight on it again.

The revolver is there so I only have 1 link between teardrop and bridge. I don't think a non pulley carabiner would do either the biner, nor my bridge any favours in the long run.

I hope no-one takes my questions as doubts/lack of respect for this amazing device (least of all it's inventor). I will always have questions, there will always be new ideas to try - most of which may not succeed - but some might, or lead on to others that might. I think it's good to keep discussing it is all. :)
 
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This idea may have merit, and since there is already a hole in the friction pin, perhaps a 4-40 screw would be better than a key ring. I will have to see what can be done with a 4-40 tap.
 
John_KAYS said:
Wait, so the both sides machined out of a single piece of aluminum? Wouldn't that add weight and cost to the top arm? I haven't noticed a problem with them being separate. It would make it stronger, is that your idear?
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Yes, machined out of one piece.

I think it would be harder to make and thus perhaps more expensive.

I think it would contribute to making it stronger and it would tighten it up a bit.

However, I don't mind reiterating how great it is in its current manifestation.
 
Thanks for the input everyone.

I spent some time today on the Bone - going up and down 20' - trying out all different bollards in all different places (even trying True Blue + Blue Streak ropes again - they don't work - never will). In the end I settled on the set up I suspected was the best for me anyway - the 3/4" bollard on the pin in place of the 5/8" bollard that came standard. I srt'd and ddrt'd, I tried out many different mechanical advantage systems (mostly utilising at least one foot ascender) and tending tethers. Most of what I may have found out has probably already been covered in this forum; but you know - it never really makes sense as to why something works/doesn't work - until you try it yourself.

I'm now realising that shiny new rope, and/or the wrong bollard, and/or running it up and down the rope with your hand (as opposed to having your weight on it) makes a difference. So now I have the right bollard, and I have my weight on it - and on the 20' piece of rope I was wearing in - it was getting quite nice. On the rest of the still shiny Cougar Orange 11.7 mm Rope - it's a bit stop and start; any solutions for that? - Maybe just climb on it, huh? - It'll wear good just like the 20' piece I went up and down on numerous times.

I have taken the key rings/split rings off for now: I found that after I installed that top cotter pin (in place of the temporary wire) - it seemed to hold that side clip link in place more (I didn't see it pop off/up anymore): I may put it back on if it does again. The bottom clip link never popped off/up anyway.

The time has come to start using it in the workplace. It's not just the Bone I'm learning - it's SRT - I have no teacher other than the internet. Aside from SRT - these are some of the things I'll be looking out for on the Bone in the near/far future (photos below):

Because the teardrop on my Bone has been slightly enlarged in order for the revolver to fit on it (does anyone else have this size teardrop too?) - it's something that I will be very aware of. I have noticed some 'rounding off' of the edges of the teardrop from the revolver; any opinions?

The revolver itself in turn seems to be losing some of it's grey sheen; normal? - To be expected?
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20151109_143446.webp

I originally just wanted to put some duct tape over some exposed stitching at the end of the splice - then I thought - why not protect the rest of the rope end? - Opinions?
20151109_143751.webp

Really do appreciate all opinions. Nobody else is pushing me to learn this stuff other than me - so most of my learning is done right here. :fuckyou:
 
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The teardrop has very little surface area against the bend on the revolver. I'd take a knife or a fine sandpaper and round the edges on the teardrop so the carabiner doesn't have to.
 
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