Clock Knot = Junk

[tockmal]

In another thread about Portawrap set up Riggs said this,

<font color="brown"> "Setting the port a wrap in one spot on a tree works only part of the time . That picture is a small Dia. tree , what about a large dia. tree with multiple rigging crotches ? no rope on wood , full directional lowering . Than what ? The Clock knot is the best way , put your money on it ."</font>

Tom Dunlap posted a link to the original discussion on the Clock knot where you could the view the knot and set up. http://tinyurl.com/ossjl]Original Clock Knot Thread

Today, against my better judgement, I decided to try the Clock Knot....with the newer Porty....

 

[tockmal]

It was one of the worst ideas I have ever encountered in my time as an arborist, almost as bad as 'Coronet Cuts'...well, not that bad.

The way the shackle twisted the anchor rope meant the Portawrap was held in an awkward twist.....if you look at the pic you can see how it would be difficult for the groundie to move round to the left without leaving the rope crossing the underneath of the barrel as the Portwrap is held fast in one direction.....

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i've never liked the idea. If cinced up pretty tight; it seems like it would place very leverged angle pull on the legs of line. Even though there are 4 of them; it jsut don't seem to fit proper rigging theory to me.

 

[tockmal]

Another pic showing the Porty being twisted by the Clock Knot...stuck in that one position due to the method of attachment...again you can see how it is difficult for the groundie to move round to left if he had to without crossing the barrel......also look at the way the 'Clock' is being pulled up the stem getting stretched......not choking like a timber hitch or a cows hitch........

 

[tockmal]

In this pic you can see the Clock being twisted, it looks as though this technique was made up just for the sake of making up a new technique. To add insult to injury, when the piece was lowered.....the Portawrap and Clock shot up the stem about 10 ft only stopping when they hit a whorl of stubs!!!

The Clock was stretched under load and instead of choking....the extra space created between the rope and stem caused the whole rig to fly up the tree.

 

[tockmal]

I should have listened to my intuition and just stuck to the far safer Timber Hitch, Whoopee Sling or Cow Hitch.

If your rigging down a big tree and need to move the Porty round the stem just loosen the Timber Hitch, Cow Hitch or Whoopee sling and move the Porty round to be inline with the block or whatever! It won't take up THAT much time!

Clock Knot = Dangerous Knot = Junk Knot

Sometimes the old ideas are the best

.

 

[tockmal]

[ QUOTE ]
i've never liked the idea. If cinced up pretty tight; it seems like it would place very leverged angle pull on the legs of line. Even though there are 4 of them; it jsut don't seem to fit proper rigging theory to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spydey,

How would it cinch up tight? the Clock is in a static configuration, this is it's biggest problem, no cinching capabilites...

 

[Mangoes]

Outside of the non cinching action of the knot......

You didn't have the porty set correctly.

 

[tockmal]

I'm listening Mangoes...what exactly do you mean by 'not set correctly'?

Are you saying the Porty was too high?

 

[TreeCo]

The porty sets and works perfectly if you don't use a shackle. Just run the clock through the porty like Riggs said to do.

 

[Mangoes]

Each time you connect ring they orient themselves 180 degrees opposite. The way treeco describes the porty is perpendiclar to the tree (not wrong by any means) If you want the barrel of the porty topoint away from the tree, install the shackle as you did. Your frustration was that the long end of the barrel was set up against the tree, and when you used it it was twisted into a working position. Which you found frustrating.

Gotta go girls are home...

 

[tockmal]

Thanks for the ideas Mangoes and Treeco.

I suppose the biggest problem I have with the Clock knot, is that it doesn't have a cinching/choking action.

The more you load a Timber/Cow Hitch and Whoopee sling the tighter the hold on the stem they have. The Clock knot works in the opposite way which leads to the slippage of the Clock and Porty up the stem.

I thought of introducing some kind of swivel between the Clock and Porty to stop the twisting action, then I realised it was pointless as the Clock does not cinch up tight to the stem.

 

[TreeCo]

The Clock may not 'cinch up' tight to the stem but I've never had it slide up the stem.

 

[tockmal]

[ QUOTE ]
The Clock may not 'cinch up' tight to the stem but I've never had it slide up the stem.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that it doesn't cinch/choke is a fundamental flaw.

I've never had the Timber/Cow hitches or a whoopee sling slide up the stem.

The Clock slid up the stem despite being re-tightened after the first section of timber came down.

 

[NickfromWI]

Can someone post a pic? How does the clock differ from the cow/stilson hitch?

love
nick

 

[Mahk_Adams]

[ QUOTE ]
Can someone post a pic? How does the clock differ from the cow/stilson hitch?

love
nick

[/ QUOTE ]


See the link in tockmal's initial post. There are pictures on the second (or third?) page of that thread.

 

[TreeCo]

Start with a big fat spliced eye choker for hanging blocks.

Hold the eye on the trunk and take the rope around the tree and back through this eye. Pull tight.

Change directions from the eye and go the other way around the tree until you get back to the bight that goes through the eye and run the rope through this bight.

Pull tight and place three half hitches.

Now you have two complete loops around the tree.

These two loops around the tree are supposed to be runnning through the mounting end of the port a warp but now it's too late as you have already tied your clock hitch! Try again with the porty in the right place.

 

[TreeCo]

[ QUOTE ]
i've never liked the idea. If cinced up pretty tight; it seems like it would place very leverged angle pull on the legs of line. Even though there are 4 of them; it jsut don't seem to fit proper rigging theory to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spidey wouldn't a cow hitch cinched up be doing the very same things as far as the very leverged angle pull on the legs of line?

 

[Riggs]

Let me tell you something clown . Don't be afraid to tie a knot tight , push ups help. I don't mind a little stretch in the sling , lets the notch work on some cuts. Junk , cmon now , tell me how you really feel . I'm a big fan of European Tree practices.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

With a Cow; i try to have a long eye of splice or Bowline; and lead the eye, not the aplice/knot out the choking bight(so only the eye formed takes the brunt of loading and the splice/knto workings are more 'protected'/buffered by som friction on mount) for a straight/inline pull on 2 solid legs(Cow/Timber); not a perpendicular/non-inline pull on 4 legs(Clock).

When i said cinch up; i meant in tying tightly; not as the lacing takes load and cinches itself up for tighter choke on host spar/mount like Cow/Timber. The tighter you tie the Clock; the more the perpendicular(therefore leveraged) the 4 legs of support are to the given loading.