Climbing saw attachment??

Nathan

Nathan

Location
Austin, TX
Always looking for a better way. I currently use the bungee from Fresco. I feel as though the saw hanging below so far slows things a bit. Thilo mentioned to me a year ago that Strasser carries his saw a different way on his belt. Anybody have any suggestions? (pics are nice)

Here is a pic of Strasser with his saw. it is a pdf /forum/images/graemlins/ahhhhh.gif pg. 8

http://www.baumkletterschule.org/mbk/images/stories/kletterseiten/kletterblatt2005_1.pdf
 
I use a stretch sling with a biner to my harnas and an eye looped in to the saw with a small biner. The ring is to hook my saw into the big fixed hook on my belt. (its from an old Komet harnas i used) That hook is big enough to hold de gashandle from a MS660 or 088. Its a handy hook, i can take/hang my MS200 single handed without problems. I have minor problems with strugling branches getting hooked up. It happens, but not so often.
 

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My brother got one of those saw hooks from Fresco and is really happy with it.

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Keep in mind that there are two types of that hook. A fixed one with those braces around a harnas belt and a simple type that hangs loose. For the one i have its recommended to have a firm plate stitched in youre belt to support it. If not the load of the saw(s) can give a nasty twist and hang to youre back. Ill make some more pics of those hooks. As for that extra support, i have the Cresto belt with firm wide backplate and sitting plate. The Komet belt had some extra plastic plate stitched inside the back where the hook was placed.
 

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This is one of the issues we talked about in one of the presentations at the Augsburger Baumpflegetage. Jelte and Puk of the Baumläufer in Berlin prepared a demo on the topic of break-away lanyards. Our idea was to look at different products on the market, their indicated breaking strains and when the actually break. The tests showed some serious discrepancies between what the manufacturers indicate and what's acutally happening. We're talking about an indicated breaking point of 100kg and in the teste winching the webbing up to half a ton without it showing any inclination of breaking!

This is a serious business,considering the importance of having a weak link when connecting a chainsaw to our harnesses. In this respect I feel pretty sure that these links are PPE: They're connectors. I think Jelte and Puk did a great job highlighting some of the issues we're going to have to look at in somewhat more detail.

One of the points was this: If you don't have a weak link in your set-up, you're probably better off not using a lanyard, like many people here in Europe do, and I don't suppose it'll be any different over states-side. Should the saw get stuck in the cut it'll fall away from you without doing any damage to you (the groundie may be another story). I'm sure Jelte will have something to add to this, so I'll leave it at that for now.

Another thing it showed to me - and I arrive at the point I was trying to make in a round about way - is a lot of these things are about configuration. Take the hook in question:

In France, where the Komet hook comes from, it's had some really bad press: The spring tends to break and on harnesses where the webbing is not attached on really well - like, for instance on Edelrid's TreeMagic (check out Frans Smith's comments on this issue) - it may well rip out the webbing. The result in both cases may well be dropped chainsaws. Also: You're attaching gear to load bearing elements of PPE. Same with weak gear loops on a number of harnesses. What do you do? Pop a carabiner under the webbing and you've got yourself an attachment point that's bomb proof.

My point is this: I think chainsaw attachment points should fail when overloaded, like for instance with a Black Diamond "Clipper" or with the Petzl clipper (who's name I've just forgotten) and to attach the end of the lanyard the ring stitched between the webbing and the back support. They will fail if your saw should get stuck: A carabiner or hook under the webbing can be as bad a attaching you chainsaw to your D-rings or main TIP.

This is generalizing of course, but I feel there is work to be done in this area, defining good work practices and proper configurations of gear.
 
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My point is this: I think chainsaw attachment points should fail when overloaded, like for instance with a Black Diamond "Clipper" or with the Petzl clipper (who's name I've just forgotten) and to attach the end of the lanyard the ring stitched between the webbing and the back support. They will fail if your saw should get stuck: A carabiner or hook under the webbing can be as bad a attaching you chainsaw to your D-rings or main TIP.

This is generalizing of course, but I feel there is work to be done in this area, defining good work practices and proper configurations of gear.

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I get the picture i quess. I can say that i have experienced a 020T drop while connected to my harnas. It did give a pull but simply that steel eye on the saw broke of. I did use a weak clip between the sling and harnas in the past, but that broke much to easily. I lost my saw several times because it broke at not that much stress/load. I use an old worn biner that i dont screw in. So i (hope) if it goes wrong it bend open or again rip the eye of the saw. Not a bad idea to bring these things up, i see what ill can change. That komet hook i have in use for 8 years i believe. Have no problems with it like braking springs or torn webbings. When using bigger saws i just clip them right in on the back handle. When making a difficult cut i use a piece of rope to tie the saw direct to the tree and not to my harnas. Maybe some more effort but if i have to let go the saw it stays in the tree insted of getting smacked at the ground.
 
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No, you're right about the Komet hooks, I believe it's the newer models that are a problem. I'll see if I can find a picture.

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This one ? (edit: small komet hook)

4,1,9,t.jpg


or what about this?

ES620-037%20-%20Trocelag2.jpg


or this (a cresto hook that should be on my harnas)
Cresto-Hook.jpg


I just like that big komet hook. Its so easy to hook up and take the saw without looking at ya back or misplacing it. Also if needed you can attach some rigging gear etc. in the same hook.
 
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When making a difficult cut i use a piece of rope to tie the saw direct to the tree and not to my harnas. Maybe some more effort but if i have to let go the saw it stays in the tree insted of getting smacked at the ground.

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Same here...I always secure the saw to the tree (or if there is not a stub or other limb to attach to and the trunk is too big I just let the saw tether hang). If the saw does get pinched by a falling limb or chunk I do not want the unpredictable direction or force of the pull on my belt (me).

I have a biner on the end of my saw tether and just choke it to the anchor...quicker than tying and untying and the biner is how I attach the saw to my belt.
 
Yes, absolutely, that was one of the conclusions we drew from the preliminary results of our limited tests: If there is the risk of having to dump your chainsaw, even if it's "only" a 020, you can be pretty sure you're going to total your weak link of the lanyard. This is not good practice: lack of control, probably no hand brake on... not good.

Therefore, if there is a risk of having to get clear pronto and in course of that having to ditch your saw, yes I agree, use something without the weak link - such as a piece of accessory cord - and attach it to the tree. Such a situation might be on a crane felling: big bits swinging rapidly and you're near the cut-off point.

The dodgy Komet hook is the bottom one. I ought to say that I'm relying heavily on info from french climbers here, I don't have first hand experience of the hook, but they're hopping mad about the whole business, as people have been hurt by falling saws and Komet doesen't see fit to respond to complaints.
 
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Were can I get one?

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MMM, wich one?

Just google on 'chainsaw hook' and you will find online shops that resell these things. I'm not sure if that big hook i have is still available.
 
"In France, where the Komet hook comes from, it's had some really bad press: The spring tends to break and on harnesses where the webbing is not attached on really well - like, for instance on Edelrid's TreeMagic (check out Frans Smith's comments on this issue) - it may well rip out the webbing. "

hey mark. what happened to the tree magic and where do i find frans smith's comments? i finally just ordered a tree magic, and of course now the first negative feedback surfaces. dang.
k.
 
I've been using the Cresto hook for a long time. I like it just fine.

What am I missing here? What is the concern about the strength of the saddle hook? There are comments about the saddle hook and concerns about getting pulled out of the tree. How are the two issues connected? My saws all have lanyards which are connected to a small ring on the Butterfly saddle. If the saw were to be pinched the lanyard or the ring would break away. The hook has nothing to do with getting pulled out of the tree.

Maybe I'm just having another "Thick-headed moment" :)

Kathy,

I can't remember the thread but you could probably do a search on Frans/Snarf and someother keyword. Or...wait until he checks in here :)
 
Tom,

I think that concern was about that biner and way of attaching i use. I dont see that whatever hook you use can do harm when a saw gets pulled down. Its the weak link in your lanyard or connection to the belt thats the point. The thing with those sawhooks to a belt is the wear it can make to a critical part of the belt i guess.

First an foreall just be sure to make good cuts when in a tree, ive seen enough newbees climbing and they werent able to fell a tree at groundlevel in a propper way. Let stand they can make a right and precise cut at 100feet where it does count.

As for me, it seems that the lanyard has a weak link in the stitches that above 200kg stress it breaks. So a pull is not to avoid, but damage to belt or yourself should be minimalized. As i sayed before, when carrying a bigger saw (MS460/660 088)i use a rope or sling to hook it to a limb or trunck when making a difficult cut.
 
Tom, no, you're not being thick headed... I realise I was lumping two issues together. When configured properly the two things aren't linked. But my point remains: What are we attaching to? Of course, the hook is inteded to hold the saw in the "short" position. But what about the carabiner stuck behind the webbing? I know from experience that often as not that's what people are attaching the end of the lanyard to. Shouldn't we be really clear on the necessity of attaching accessories only to non-load bearing elements of PPE? Especially when demoing or teaching... you know how it is, people see somthing - more or less - and go home and brew something up which is "pretty dang close" to what the guy on the demo showed.

So my point I was trying to make is this: If we say the tie in point of the end of the lanyard has to break away and the parked position also, in form of a "clipper" type carabiner. That way, even if someone does mixe up the two, they both remain break away elements in case something were to go wrong. Am I being clear here?/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes4.gif

Kathy, I'd rather not get into that too deep, for various reasons. Read what frans "snarf" has to say and form your own opinion. I must say I used a TreeMagic all winter without any major problems: it's a confortable harness with some interesting features. But it's definitively not suited to attaching with a hook as described in the posts above, the webbing just won't hold. Read snarf's comments here: http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=23343&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

See you in Pittsburgh? Hope so.

Regards, M.
 
Mark,

Thanks for clearing that up.

You're saying that the hook on the saddle should be a weak link too. Redundancy is a good thing. A fellow who wrote for "Sea Kayaker" magazine would dissect kayaking accidents to see what went wrong and to propose alternatives that wouldn't have lead the the accident. One of his sayings was "Backup your backups"
 
Tom, did I clear it up? My post didn't make much sense to me, but - in a nutshell - yes, I think that's what I'm saying. /forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

What it boils down to is this: If you can clip something big enough to hurt you onto the hook and it's attached to a load-bearing element of your PPE... yes, it probably should be a weak link. Remeber Murphy!
 
hey mark,
thanks for finding that thread for me. don't know how i missed that one. i was thinking of the treemagic as a handsaw pruning and competition saddle - seems the lighter weight saddles can't really manage a chainsaw very comfortably. anyway, i guess i'll find out. as for pittsburgh (nashville this year, actually), you'll see me there for sure but i won't be competing. taking a year off tree competing to train for another event in october. i hope they'll use me as a judge though, and i'm bringing my gear..
see you there!
k.
 
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