- Location
- Austin, Texas
This is not a greasy retarant Thread!
clean cut crews.
- Thread starter Nevic
- Start date
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
exactly now we're trying to evolve it into a big business, category killer thread!
When they get to the size of a Wal-mart then it easy to lose sight of the vision.
When they get to the size of a Wal-mart then it easy to lose sight of the vision.
Clean cut crews are the way to be in my opinion too.
Here's a nice letter I recieved in the mail this week from a customer. I will write it word for word from start to finish:
David Driver
Arbor-X Inc
2330 Thomas Run Road
Bel Air, MD 21015
Dear Mr. Driver:
I want to commend you and your crew on the exemplary job you did on removing two large trees from my yard. I was concerned about the proximity of the trees to the house but, not to worry, you removed them with extreme skill resulting in no damage to the house or existing shrubbery.
I also want to mention the promptness with providing an estimate of charges and a complete detailed description of the work to be done and procedures for completion. You were very considerate with timing the project and arrived precisely as planned. Thank you for the care you gave to clean up and reseeding the grass. By the time I returned from Florida the lawn was completely recovered with not a hint of the equipment that had been there.
Then, of course, I want to mention the professionalism of you and the entire crew. I appreciated the fact that there was no smoking and no cursing. There was an air of quality workmanship about the entire job.
I will certainly recommend you to my neighbors and friends. It was a pleasure working with you.
Sincerely yours,
Ann Carney
-------------------
she later said in an e-mail that I could post her letter and name where I wanted to.
I remember during the job, her saying she was amazed how well the crew worked together and there was no yelling, no cursing or smoking. We get compliments very often about how well the crew members work together and what a clean professional job we did and that there was no yelling. Not very often does the customer say out loud that they liked the no cursing and no smoking though.
We actually do have one guy that smokes but he will only do it on lunch break or do it where people won't see it. We had a talk about this when he was hired this spring and he has kept his word.
During the week, some of us might not shave every day, but I think it's okay. I definitely shave before my estimates on Saturdays though.
Here's a nice letter I recieved in the mail this week from a customer. I will write it word for word from start to finish:
David Driver
Arbor-X Inc
2330 Thomas Run Road
Bel Air, MD 21015
Dear Mr. Driver:
I want to commend you and your crew on the exemplary job you did on removing two large trees from my yard. I was concerned about the proximity of the trees to the house but, not to worry, you removed them with extreme skill resulting in no damage to the house or existing shrubbery.
I also want to mention the promptness with providing an estimate of charges and a complete detailed description of the work to be done and procedures for completion. You were very considerate with timing the project and arrived precisely as planned. Thank you for the care you gave to clean up and reseeding the grass. By the time I returned from Florida the lawn was completely recovered with not a hint of the equipment that had been there.
Then, of course, I want to mention the professionalism of you and the entire crew. I appreciated the fact that there was no smoking and no cursing. There was an air of quality workmanship about the entire job.
I will certainly recommend you to my neighbors and friends. It was a pleasure working with you.
Sincerely yours,
Ann Carney
-------------------
she later said in an e-mail that I could post her letter and name where I wanted to.
I remember during the job, her saying she was amazed how well the crew worked together and there was no yelling, no cursing or smoking. We get compliments very often about how well the crew members work together and what a clean professional job we did and that there was no yelling. Not very often does the customer say out loud that they liked the no cursing and no smoking though.
We actually do have one guy that smokes but he will only do it on lunch break or do it where people won't see it. We had a talk about this when he was hired this spring and he has kept his word.
During the week, some of us might not shave every day, but I think it's okay. I definitely shave before my estimates on Saturdays though.
You know, on the flip side, there is a benefit to those that dress like slobs and have beat up equipment.
When some customers see that, they think; man, this guy really needs the money and I'm sure he's giving me the lowest price I'd get anyway, so I'm not going to get another estimate.
There are quite a few tree services here that fit that hillbilly, slob description and it works in their favor a lot of the time.
But they get the customers that only care about getting the lowest price and don't care about quality work. I can't believe the damage and crap they can do and the customers don't give them grief because they were kind of expecting it anyway.
We don't want those kind of customers that only care about the bottom dollar and aren't loyal to us. We want those that appreciate proffessionalism and things done right. Maybe that's why in this hurting economy right now, the dirt-balls are having a hard time and we with our loyal customers are doing just fine.
There are also some people that see nice kept, expensive equipment and think, "I don't want them, they must be expensive, look at all that equipment they have to pay for". This burns me up! This mentallity is SO stupid! Someone said that to me a few months back. "I said look, the job should always cost about the same no matter who does it with what equipment. It might take 4 hillbillies with a pickup truck and junky chipper to do a big tree removal in 4 days. Cost: $3000.00. OR, it might take us with our crane and big equipment to do it in one day. Cost: $3000.
Actually, cost can often be lowered a little with the right equipment when the equipment makes things so fast and easy.
We've had several hillbilly tree services actually hire us to do the jobs they have. So what does that tell the customer? The dirt-ball tree service gets a big job accepted at $6000. They ask me; "hey David, what could you do that job for with your crane and big chipper?" "Well, I could do it for $4000." "Alright then, you please go ahead and do it for us." They got the job because the customer thought that they must be getting a good deal because the guy that showed up for the estimate was wearing sweat-pants with holes in them, shoes with the soles coming off and a fat bear belly hanging out from under his shirt. Then, come work day; what the heck!!!! Here comes that Arbor-X in here with the big expensive crane and equipment and clean cut crew to do the actual work. ...it makes me feel good to think what that customer must be thinking at that moment.... I must have gotten ripped off!
When some customers see that, they think; man, this guy really needs the money and I'm sure he's giving me the lowest price I'd get anyway, so I'm not going to get another estimate.
There are quite a few tree services here that fit that hillbilly, slob description and it works in their favor a lot of the time.
But they get the customers that only care about getting the lowest price and don't care about quality work. I can't believe the damage and crap they can do and the customers don't give them grief because they were kind of expecting it anyway.
We don't want those kind of customers that only care about the bottom dollar and aren't loyal to us. We want those that appreciate proffessionalism and things done right. Maybe that's why in this hurting economy right now, the dirt-balls are having a hard time and we with our loyal customers are doing just fine.
There are also some people that see nice kept, expensive equipment and think, "I don't want them, they must be expensive, look at all that equipment they have to pay for". This burns me up! This mentallity is SO stupid! Someone said that to me a few months back. "I said look, the job should always cost about the same no matter who does it with what equipment. It might take 4 hillbillies with a pickup truck and junky chipper to do a big tree removal in 4 days. Cost: $3000.00. OR, it might take us with our crane and big equipment to do it in one day. Cost: $3000.
Actually, cost can often be lowered a little with the right equipment when the equipment makes things so fast and easy.
We've had several hillbilly tree services actually hire us to do the jobs they have. So what does that tell the customer? The dirt-ball tree service gets a big job accepted at $6000. They ask me; "hey David, what could you do that job for with your crane and big chipper?" "Well, I could do it for $4000." "Alright then, you please go ahead and do it for us." They got the job because the customer thought that they must be getting a good deal because the guy that showed up for the estimate was wearing sweat-pants with holes in them, shoes with the soles coming off and a fat bear belly hanging out from under his shirt. Then, come work day; what the heck!!!! Here comes that Arbor-X in here with the big expensive crane and equipment and clean cut crew to do the actual work. ...it makes me feel good to think what that customer must be thinking at that moment.... I must have gotten ripped off!
rfwoodvt
New member
- Location
- This side of eternity.
[ QUOTE ]
look, the job should always cost about the same no matter who does it with what equipment. It might take 4 hillbillies with a pickup truck and junky chipper to do a big tree removal in 4 days. Cost: $3000.00. OR, it might take us with our crane and big equipment to do it in one day. Cost: $3000.
Actually, cost can often be lowered a little with the right equipment when the equipment makes things so fast and easy.
[/ QUOTE ]
When bidding is done correctly you are absolutely right! One big difference I have found is that fixed overhead makes a huge difference in how close the bids are.
If you have a small crew then the fixed overhead is spread over fewer production hours so your base rates tend to be higher. Also, large equipment financing and shop rent can place strains on the base rates.
Then the hacks have little fixed overhead and quite possibly no legitimate overhead so their base rates can be a lot lower.
Even so, often time the hacks will "need" to make more money so they can play the "gotta eat" card and end up much more expensive to hire, especially on the the tough jobs.
I think that is because, well... their choices and personal economic policy don't make it easy for them to hang on to thier money.
Lets not forget even the bigg guys can make it a point to over charge too!
Never easy to figure out, is it?
What often works for us is during the sales conversation we let the customer know that if they want it done PDQ (or quicker than we are able) then they can call "LotsaEquip" tree and though they will run YY% more than our price they'll be in and out in a couple hours.
On the other hand if they want to save a ton of $$$ then they can call "Hack&Spike" Cutters who "I am sure will get the job done well for about ZZ% less than us" but will take a week or more to finish.
Or we can do the job within a day and for a price that is somewhere in between. We let them know that sometimes we are high bidder, not so often low bidder but somewhere in the middle. And even if they do not hire us they will take away new knowledge about thier trees and how they grow so they can make better informed choices for thier trees in the future.
It simply is a matter of putting the customer's "needs" above our "need" to land that particular job.
I checked our closing percentage last week and in terms of jobs bid, we coverted 64% of them into contracts. In terms of $$$ bid it was 42% converted to contracts.
Seems that it is working well for us.
look, the job should always cost about the same no matter who does it with what equipment. It might take 4 hillbillies with a pickup truck and junky chipper to do a big tree removal in 4 days. Cost: $3000.00. OR, it might take us with our crane and big equipment to do it in one day. Cost: $3000.
Actually, cost can often be lowered a little with the right equipment when the equipment makes things so fast and easy.
[/ QUOTE ]
When bidding is done correctly you are absolutely right! One big difference I have found is that fixed overhead makes a huge difference in how close the bids are.
If you have a small crew then the fixed overhead is spread over fewer production hours so your base rates tend to be higher. Also, large equipment financing and shop rent can place strains on the base rates.
Then the hacks have little fixed overhead and quite possibly no legitimate overhead so their base rates can be a lot lower.
Even so, often time the hacks will "need" to make more money so they can play the "gotta eat" card and end up much more expensive to hire, especially on the the tough jobs.
I think that is because, well... their choices and personal economic policy don't make it easy for them to hang on to thier money.
Lets not forget even the bigg guys can make it a point to over charge too!
Never easy to figure out, is it?
What often works for us is during the sales conversation we let the customer know that if they want it done PDQ (or quicker than we are able) then they can call "LotsaEquip" tree and though they will run YY% more than our price they'll be in and out in a couple hours.
On the other hand if they want to save a ton of $$$ then they can call "Hack&Spike" Cutters who "I am sure will get the job done well for about ZZ% less than us" but will take a week or more to finish.
Or we can do the job within a day and for a price that is somewhere in between. We let them know that sometimes we are high bidder, not so often low bidder but somewhere in the middle. And even if they do not hire us they will take away new knowledge about thier trees and how they grow so they can make better informed choices for thier trees in the future.
It simply is a matter of putting the customer's "needs" above our "need" to land that particular job.
I checked our closing percentage last week and in terms of jobs bid, we coverted 64% of them into contracts. In terms of $$$ bid it was 42% converted to contracts.
Seems that it is working well for us.
- Location
- New England (NH)
Nice job X
- Location
- NJ
first things first number one [ QUOTE ]
This is not a greasy retarant Thread!
[/ QUOTE ]
That being repaeted!!!!! who gives a rats arse, Nevic I hope I never meet you in real live, nuff said!
[ QUOTE ]
I remember during the job, her saying she was amazed how well the crew worked together and there was no yelling, no cursing or smoking.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry but every company has these letters on their walls, there is always someone pleased with the work done be it someone that (my god you only get 3000 day for your crane) has all the bells and trinkets or joe blow. You know the guy that can do it just as fast as you, but has the ugly truck. Please don't base your piont of a tree guy on the fact he has a pretty truck, or an ugly truck, cuase I know a guy you all love that has some ugly trucks. so really your letter falls on deaf ears mate, sorry to speak the truth.
This is not a greasy retarant Thread!
[/ QUOTE ]
That being repaeted!!!!! who gives a rats arse, Nevic I hope I never meet you in real live, nuff said!
[ QUOTE ]
I remember during the job, her saying she was amazed how well the crew worked together and there was no yelling, no cursing or smoking.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry but every company has these letters on their walls, there is always someone pleased with the work done be it someone that (my god you only get 3000 day for your crane) has all the bells and trinkets or joe blow. You know the guy that can do it just as fast as you, but has the ugly truck. Please don't base your piont of a tree guy on the fact he has a pretty truck, or an ugly truck, cuase I know a guy you all love that has some ugly trucks. so really your letter falls on deaf ears mate, sorry to speak the truth.
rfwoodvt
New member
- Location
- This side of eternity.
Please forgive me in advance, I'm about to pop a gasket on this one!
Why is it that people defend or excuse bad behaviour, poor appearance or offensive attitudes by citing only the one extreme end of the bell curve or the other?
Of course we all know the great worker with the tattered clothes and messy truck. And yes, he does seem to be staying one step ahead of being behind.
However, for crying out loud, as service providers we are working with the general population and in order to grow in any business you need to find common ground with those prospective customers who reside in the middle of the Bellcurve!
Right now the middle of that bellcurve prefers to see organized, well groomed, clean spoken and respectful service providers.
What is wrong with that? And why is it so difficult to grasp that some in this thread feel they must fight and deny that concept!?
If you don't like the bell curve, educate the consumer base in an effort to change the curve.
But don't waste our time by denying the curve is presently what it is!
If you don't like the curve, or only want to work in the segment that you personally fit into then that is fine and right! That is also called Niche Marketing!
The fact and final answer is, if you want access to the middle of that bell curve of customers, you gotta present yourself accordingly.
If you find that concept to be philosophically unacceptable that is truly unfortunate and completely irrelevant.
If you want TRUTH, then the TRUTH is that a very large segment of the consumer base prefers a certain appearance and presentation. And if you want to serve that base, then meeting that expectation is basically required.
Business succeeds the long haul by doing one thing only...Identify your market and then meet their needs.
Period...end of Story.
(thanx for the indulgence, I'm gonna fix that gasket now
)
Why is it that people defend or excuse bad behaviour, poor appearance or offensive attitudes by citing only the one extreme end of the bell curve or the other?
Of course we all know the great worker with the tattered clothes and messy truck. And yes, he does seem to be staying one step ahead of being behind.
However, for crying out loud, as service providers we are working with the general population and in order to grow in any business you need to find common ground with those prospective customers who reside in the middle of the Bellcurve!
Right now the middle of that bellcurve prefers to see organized, well groomed, clean spoken and respectful service providers.
What is wrong with that? And why is it so difficult to grasp that some in this thread feel they must fight and deny that concept!?
If you don't like the bell curve, educate the consumer base in an effort to change the curve.
But don't waste our time by denying the curve is presently what it is!
If you don't like the curve, or only want to work in the segment that you personally fit into then that is fine and right! That is also called Niche Marketing!
The fact and final answer is, if you want access to the middle of that bell curve of customers, you gotta present yourself accordingly.
If you find that concept to be philosophically unacceptable that is truly unfortunate and completely irrelevant.
If you want TRUTH, then the TRUTH is that a very large segment of the consumer base prefers a certain appearance and presentation. And if you want to serve that base, then meeting that expectation is basically required.
Business succeeds the long haul by doing one thing only...Identify your market and then meet their needs.
Period...end of Story.
(thanx for the indulgence, I'm gonna fix that gasket now
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
you said it rf. Look at the retail market. Millions are spent on store presentation because it is what their market wants. Like it or not. Walk into a high end boutique shop and you'll see even more spent on presentation and the service is at a higher level still. Sure it's got little to do with the product itself but when people have a choice besides the bottomline they want and expect quality service and the look to go with it.
I worked for a great arborists with a crappy truck and it did effect who hired him and more importantly the price he could command.
That is reality. Deal with it.
I worked for a great arborists with a crappy truck and it did effect who hired him and more importantly the price he could command.
That is reality. Deal with it.
- Location
- New England (NH)
I once worked for a guy with outstanding shiny eqiupment who was an ignorant arse. The crew members, to our credit, did strive extra hard to present and perform above what was expected to combat his arrogant curb appeal. I always questioned doing tree work bids in a $85K truck, I think the customers did to. He thought we were hot poop because we pulled in 2,800$ a day. I know now that is about average (especially when you considered the huge equipment overhead he ran). So looks can be deceiving both ways. People trust clean cut, looks, work ethic, and communication skills more than ratty hacks. In the middle of that curve, there are still guys on the crew that need a makeover- pulling up the pants, shaving a less than full beard etc- or they run the risk of bringing the rest down in the clients eyes. I like the dives to drink beer in, and sometimes breakfast, but when I am taking my family out (buying a service), I avoid them opting for the clean, reputable places. I still believe in working hard to build relationships, keep em happy. Good on you rf, take the gloves off.
- Location
- NJ
[ QUOTE ]
you said it rf. Look at the retail market. Millions are spent on store presentation because it is what their market wants. Like it or not. Walk into a high end boutique shop and you'll see even more spent on presentation and the service is at a higher level still.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats cool, you take your 10-20 High endders, I'll take the 100-200 walmarters
theres your walmart hit pancake. Beshides the high endders most the time are a pain in the arse to get paid from, they the ones most the time make you come back out for something or an other or they wont pay the bill. I always like the ones that think pruning is charged by the pound and not the job.
you said it rf. Look at the retail market. Millions are spent on store presentation because it is what their market wants. Like it or not. Walk into a high end boutique shop and you'll see even more spent on presentation and the service is at a higher level still.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats cool, you take your 10-20 High endders, I'll take the 100-200 walmarters
Hollenjerk,
Your a real treat on this forum.
I say, bring back the MasterBlaster and boot the Hollenjerk.
Your are a pretty angry guy.
Are you going through a divorce or what are you so mad about in life?
It's like you are rebelling all the time, especially against the tree industry improving itself.
I haven't read much on this forum this summer because I've been too busy, but I've heard you started work at a good reputable tree service in Jersey but you didn't last.
I heard you stated, "I didn't like it there". Yeah, you didn't like it there probably because they didn't like you. Maybe you are feeling hurt and your rebelling against that.
Whatever, you are irritating.
But I guess the internet is a fine and safe place to let it out.
Your a real treat on this forum.
I say, bring back the MasterBlaster and boot the Hollenjerk.
Your are a pretty angry guy.
Are you going through a divorce or what are you so mad about in life?
It's like you are rebelling all the time, especially against the tree industry improving itself.
I haven't read much on this forum this summer because I've been too busy, but I've heard you started work at a good reputable tree service in Jersey but you didn't last.
I heard you stated, "I didn't like it there". Yeah, you didn't like it there probably because they didn't like you. Maybe you are feeling hurt and your rebelling against that.
Whatever, you are irritating.
But I guess the internet is a fine and safe place to let it out.
- Location
- New England (NH)
Are we all taking the gloves off now?
Hopefully this thread will live on for a while, it does seem that it is taking a turn for the grave. Maybe we have to face it, to each his own, we can't all work for the 1%ers (not the bikers either as a co worker once thought we were talking about) not everyone can afford $3,000 a day for treework. Different strokes for different folks. I will say that the 1%ers are looking for something other than a bargain price IMO.
- Location
- mon co, nj
Unfortunately you are correct Xman; bring back the blaster and good ridins to hollen.
I have worked for all types of companies. Some were nicknamed "Biker Tree" who had great treeman who seemed to miss hitting those great customers. On the other hand I have worked for "Clean Cut" sevices who also had great treeman that were able to have a different client and the latter situation seemed to pay off well with a minimal amount of stress, so often associated with being a gypsy.
The truth may rub some wrong. The reality is everyone from the owner on down is a salesman and must conduct thierselves in a manner that would want a customer to repeat.
I have worked for all types of companies. Some were nicknamed "Biker Tree" who had great treeman who seemed to miss hitting those great customers. On the other hand I have worked for "Clean Cut" sevices who also had great treeman that were able to have a different client and the latter situation seemed to pay off well with a minimal amount of stress, so often associated with being a gypsy.
The truth may rub some wrong. The reality is everyone from the owner on down is a salesman and must conduct thierselves in a manner that would want a customer to repeat.
- Location
- NJ
[ QUOTE ]
Your a real treat on this forum.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why thank you
[ QUOTE ]
Your are a pretty angry guy.
[/ QUOTE ]
My post wasn't in anger, it was just a comment, to his post.
[ QUOTE ]
Are you going through a divorce or what are you so mad about in life?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not mad about anything, anybody that knows me in real life finds me to be quit enjoyable.
[ QUOTE ]
It's like you are rebelling all the time, especially against the tree industry improving itself.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not rebelling just making commets thought thats what this was all about didn't realize I was to only agree with the groupies. I'm never against tree work improving, I'm against a group of guys that I or prob yourself did not have a chance to vote on tell you the rules on how to do your job. If your an ISA member should you not get to vote for the guy that is in there making rules?
[ QUOTE ]
I heard you stated, "I didn't like it there". Yeah, you didn't like it there probably because they didn't like you. Maybe you are feeling hurt and your rebelling against that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Didn't like me? bah hum bug! They offered me the job, heck, I even heard they was pissed off I did show the next fri to work. I wont go into my feeling about it here in forum, like I posted before you want to know then PM me. I work for and have worked for nothing but reputable companies the last 8 years, Savatree, Barttlet, truned down a job with Care of trees. heres a link to the company I work for have a look.
http://www.cctreeexperts.com/
see the trucks are very pretty. But then I,ve worked the other end too where you'er not even sure the truck your driving will make to the job and back. Guess what I still do the same high standard work and recive the same compliments, thing is the walmarters bring water out in a glass and most the million dollar prop tell you the hose is in the back, or don't even offer a drink of water. Not that I expect people to do this, it's just the difference in type of people.
[ QUOTE ]
Whatever, you are irritating.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm saddened by your view, all I'm doing is posting my opinons. Most irritating thing in life is to go through it blindly, not being open to others veiws. I heard their might be a book burning somewhere would you like to go. (see just kidding) But it seems alot here are just fixed on one type of book but there are tons of books to look at, and to bash all the other books cuase they don't fit in with your book, now that's irritating.
Your a real treat on this forum.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why thank you
[ QUOTE ]
Your are a pretty angry guy.
[/ QUOTE ]
My post wasn't in anger, it was just a comment, to his post.
[ QUOTE ]
Are you going through a divorce or what are you so mad about in life?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not mad about anything, anybody that knows me in real life finds me to be quit enjoyable.
[ QUOTE ]
It's like you are rebelling all the time, especially against the tree industry improving itself.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not rebelling just making commets thought thats what this was all about didn't realize I was to only agree with the groupies. I'm never against tree work improving, I'm against a group of guys that I or prob yourself did not have a chance to vote on tell you the rules on how to do your job. If your an ISA member should you not get to vote for the guy that is in there making rules?
[ QUOTE ]
I heard you stated, "I didn't like it there". Yeah, you didn't like it there probably because they didn't like you. Maybe you are feeling hurt and your rebelling against that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Didn't like me? bah hum bug! They offered me the job, heck, I even heard they was pissed off I did show the next fri to work. I wont go into my feeling about it here in forum, like I posted before you want to know then PM me. I work for and have worked for nothing but reputable companies the last 8 years, Savatree, Barttlet, truned down a job with Care of trees. heres a link to the company I work for have a look.
http://www.cctreeexperts.com/
see the trucks are very pretty. But then I,ve worked the other end too where you'er not even sure the truck your driving will make to the job and back. Guess what I still do the same high standard work and recive the same compliments, thing is the walmarters bring water out in a glass and most the million dollar prop tell you the hose is in the back, or don't even offer a drink of water. Not that I expect people to do this, it's just the difference in type of people.
[ QUOTE ]
Whatever, you are irritating.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm saddened by your view, all I'm doing is posting my opinons. Most irritating thing in life is to go through it blindly, not being open to others veiws. I heard their might be a book burning somewhere would you like to go. (see just kidding) But it seems alot here are just fixed on one type of book but there are tons of books to look at, and to bash all the other books cuase they don't fit in with your book, now that's irritating.
- Location
- North of Boston
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not rebelling just making commets thought thats what this was all about didn't realize I was to only agree with the groupies. I'm never against tree work improving, I'm against a group of guys that I or prob yourself did not have a chance to vote on tell you the rules on how to do your job. If your an ISA member should you not get to vote for the guy that is in there making rules?
[/ QUOTE ]
Not all voting members of ANSI are ISA members, FYI. Its a national board, not an ISA board.
I'm not rebelling just making commets thought thats what this was all about didn't realize I was to only agree with the groupies. I'm never against tree work improving, I'm against a group of guys that I or prob yourself did not have a chance to vote on tell you the rules on how to do your job. If your an ISA member should you not get to vote for the guy that is in there making rules?
[/ QUOTE ]
Not all voting members of ANSI are ISA members, FYI. Its a national board, not an ISA board.
- Location
- NJ
right wasn't even thinking ansi but theres another point with much lacking. I was meaning all the certs to pass who makes the rules for them? Like CTW ISACA, the newest CBW, will there be a CGW next? Who makes the rules for these? did you get to vote for one of the rules makers?
- Location
- mon co, nj
The fact of the matter is like rf stated appearance matters. If someone wants to buck the sterotype and walk around like charlie manson then it works out for me. Educate your employees and keep them basically clean cut and I believe half the battle has been won.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Hollenreich, that's cool that you see your market as the walmarters. That is the point I'm making some go for the top, some the middle and some the bottom of the market. Each has it's issues but as long as the market your in fits with your personality and work attitude then good on ya.
As for voting for the ISA leadership, I'm a member and I get to vote. I live in the US now but I don't get to vote. That's the way it is and I do have to live by the rules or risk getting booted. I may not agree with some but hey I joined the industry and knew the rules going in. My choice. I also knew that the rules will change and not always the way I want them to. That's one of the reasons I am for practicing this art in as safe a manner as can be. It's a ripple effect. If someone isn't working safe and screws up, the ripples reach right across the pond in the form of increased insurance costs which have nothing to do with the government or any association. That's just business. So you can go along and try to effect change for the better or just buck the system.
My choice is to work the system from within.
As for voting for the ISA leadership, I'm a member and I get to vote. I live in the US now but I don't get to vote. That's the way it is and I do have to live by the rules or risk getting booted. I may not agree with some but hey I joined the industry and knew the rules going in. My choice. I also knew that the rules will change and not always the way I want them to. That's one of the reasons I am for practicing this art in as safe a manner as can be. It's a ripple effect. If someone isn't working safe and screws up, the ripples reach right across the pond in the form of increased insurance costs which have nothing to do with the government or any association. That's just business. So you can go along and try to effect change for the better or just buck the system.
My choice is to work the system from within.
