City Worker/Arborist Position?

[macrocarpa]

I have gone back and forth with continueing to run my tree care service, or taking a job like this one. (link below)

It seems that the gov/city jobs that pay well and appear interesting are all in the west, accept for the top urban forester positions which seem to be reasonable here in the east as well (but I only have an associates). I worked for the city urban forestry program here in TN and I never got to do anything but clear tree of hell from road sides and hold stop/go signs. Never got to climb/prune or PHC so I was only there for 5 months.

I like the idea of benefits, retirement, etc, but....

My questions are:

what do you guys think a job like this would be like for an arborist?

is the pay decent only because cost of living in so high in these areas?

would a skilled arborist be utilized in a job like this, or end up going back to private sector due to boredom?

http://careers.nwjobs.com/careers/jobsearch/detail?jobId=33874258

 

[RGus]

I think it really depends on the city you work for. Some cities have climbers, and other cities only use buckets and contract out any climbing that is needed. I think it is pretty rare that a municipality does much PHC. If you are in the North I bet you will spend the winter behind a plow.

If you are looking into a position I would reccommend getting as much information about the yearly workload of the position. Research the city and position just the same as if you were looking into working for any private business.

I have never worked for a city, but have alot of friends that do, so I dont know first hand. Just an ousiders point of view.

 

[Tr33Climb3r]

City work is really annoying. I have worked a couple summers and a couple winter breaks. I worked for a great city forester and we do work. Just the amount of laziness that is in everyone else us dumb. I am going for my bachelors right now not because I want a city or government job someday...more for personal improvement and to set an example.

 

[oldoakman]

Several things you need to consider Mac.

1. How old you are right now. City jobs tend to be a little less demanding physically, so if you are headding into the 45-50 YO range, it might be OK.

2. Are you willing to move across the country? I did this at 47 and I have regrets. I have a 1.5yo grandson that I don't see nearly enough and in July will have a second grandchild.

3. Look closely at what department you will be in. Cities with Tree Depts under Parks and Rec are a no no in my book. They alwaqys have to fight for the last of the budget $$.

That all being said, I have been on both sides of the issue. Early in my career I worked for a Muni that was pretty progressive with their program, unfortunately the boss was a jerk at times and we parted ways under less that ideal circumstances. After a stint in my own business I have returned to the muni trough. My posiition for me is ideal. I like my boss and co-workers, I have freedom to determine my schedule. I have some supervisory responsibilities and I have influence over the private contractors in the area. Really the only down side to things here are the distance from "Home" and we haven't seen a salary raise in 3 years and it doesn't look good for year 4. So I am back to square one, working for a muni and doing side work. Catch 22.

Hope this helps.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

About a year and a half ago I took the job as the Campus Arborist at a 160 acre university campus. They have never had an arborist on staff so I wasn't walking in someone else's path. From the beginning I've been given almost free run to do the work that I see in the way that I decide it needs to be completed. We have a work order system in place too. In the year and a half I have probably only gotten less than 20 work orders.

For me, this is about as close to a perfect job as I could dream of!

It did take a major mind shift to change my way of thinking. Until last September I thought of myself as a commmercial arbo. In this mode my way of thinking is that client/university doesn't know what needs to be done, asks me, I do the job and then get paid. What I now realize is that I'm working more as a municipal arbo. In this mode, the entity has the power but not always the knowledge of proper treework. I have to do what I'm told for the most part which isn't bad. there have been a couple of things that have come down from above that were wrong. This lead to a little tension. For me, thinking like a muni has calmed my head and guts.

There are trade-offs of course. Being brought down to a lower work standard can be frustrating. That can create tension between you and your co-workers. Answering to a system that doesn't know what's best for trees can be challenging.

But...the benefits are generally generous.

 

[macrocarpa]

Thanks for the advise and experiences.

I seem to think about this more during the off season, then by mid march I don't have as much time to ponder. Hard to know what the best long term decision would be.

Thanks

 

[ArborCut]

My biggest question is how old are you and whos waiting at home for you at the end of the day.Ten years ago i made the decision to go to a muni position based on the upcoming events(getting married,buying a house,and having a kid).Those three events are some of the most stressful times you encounter in life but having a secure muni job with great benefits and a good pension sure eased the burden.I still do alot of sidejobs and the beauty of that is the luxury of picking and choosing your tree jobs rather than feeling the pressure to take on everthing.I am quite sure that financially i am way farther ahead than when i was operating my business fulltime.My advice is if you get an opportunity jump on it,if you have drive and talent you may even climb the muni ladder to a better position and love it.

 

[wulkowicz]

Great start to a good thread, Macrocarpa.

None of us can really escape juggling the many variables inside and outside us, and in hindsight we might have wished we did things differently. But, life is often a mixture of the difficult and the serendipitous--it's hard to tell until we get past it all.

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I want to take a moment to comment on Bob Underwood's reminder to me of the CODIT pruning I presented many years ago. It doesn't fit well inside the commercial arborist's world because of customers expectations and the competitive demands of that side of the business. Where it can be most useful is in the domains of municipal and institutional arboriculture that aren't required to have immediate results in a box full of wood that apparently justifies paying the bill.

From the very beginning, I tried to say that CODIT pruning would appear counterintuitive and unacceptable to the men and women who work for individual clients and uninformed customers. This thread might be a reasonable place to restart the dialogues and explain what I thought about taking advantage of tree-time and the already present mechanisms Alex and others described in giving us the concepts of CODIT.

Below is the image that Underwood saved when I was discussing the concept over at the ISA forums. I want to clarify that an amount of "time" well in advance before a limb was rotten to the breaking point, was the time-range margin for us to operate safely on behalf of targets.

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With an instantaneous pruning of a limb, the commercial arborist pleases the customer and justifies a bill. The downside consequence of a full wood box can be it also appears as if that were the final proof of a job well done and worth the money. In that consideration, it can also get filled with wood that shouldn't be pruned. I think that this is a subtle and seductive impression that arborists should guard against considering their often self-stated roles as stewards of trees.

In its simplicity, my concept takes advantage of the CODIT mechanisms and the time that a tree takes, any individual tree, to achieve the best practical completions of individual CODIT elements. I believe that time ranges required lengths can only come from practice, observation, and recording based on individual species, rather than someone like me trying to predict a future.

Municipal and institutional arboriculture, including arboretums and gardens, are the available sheltered workshops were we can look professionally at additional techniques that trees deserve.

Bob Wulkowicz

 

[RopeShield]

My experience as muni is sad and depressing but I did have some great coworkers and managers and some good and satisfying times.
I do not like to think about it but it was a learning experience.
Here is few warnings.
If your a misfit(like doing it your way) stay out of it. No matter your succes, your efforts are usually in vain.

If you have trouble staying under the radar there are many eyes waiting to see you fail and then to watch you be crucified.

Friends in a muni enviro are few because the ladder of success drives a mean spirited competition.

If you are the type to refuse to do the wrong thing because counsel and mayor and joe public want it that way you are identified as a parasite to be removed.

Being a commercial arborist is just as trying but atleast if you don't like who you are working for or with you can easily move on.There is always another client or coworker.

I hire and train every year or two(if I'm lucky) and that is one of the best parts of every season teaching, sharing and caring for trees with different people.

I love to serve the public but the money and all that goes with a muni job has to be coupled with a great place to work.

 

[treesandsurf]

Take RopeShield's advice to heart. I started a muni job a year and half ago. It is a real shift from the commercial world of tree care.

I can't comment on all municipalities as I've only worked for one. There are definitely positives to the position, but the culture can be extremely trying to 'fit in' with at times. I've seen my strong passion for trees somewhat diminished since I've started and finding ways to keep myself motivated.

For the most part, it's important not to raise eyebrows, stay under the radar and learn how to be effective within the system. As wulkowicz commented, there is a lot of opportunity to take care of trees without that feeling of needing to satisfy someone's personal desires at the expense of the tree's health. That aspect is really nice.

However, proceed with a lot of caution. Figure out EXACTLY what you'll be doing, not what it says you will be doing on the job description, or on paper. There is a huge difference. 90% of my time is dealing with angry members of the public and giving them a very sterile, black and white answer. Becoming the face of the man is a hard thing to swallow sometimes :sad:.

jp