Certified Arborist Spike-Climb Pruning > Reason ??

15 years is a long time to be completely ignorant to the damage they're causing to their clients trees and it also raises the question of how they became certified in the first place without a basic understanding of tree biology and mechanics.
it's such a shame that they will probably continue to make money with such poor practices.
 
Redwoods are often spiked during trims. Because their limbs often droop and don't lend themselves to holding a climbline secure, even attempts to set rings often fail.

The thick spongy bark on the lower reaches of the trunk isn't breached by the points so often, but higher up the tree the bark thins and penetration into the sap wood is more common.

It's a tough call with them sometimes.
 
Re: Certified Arborist Spike-Climb Pruning > Reason ??

I've heard of this before with some thick barked species, but a birch with no other safety issues seems to give no excuses.

After talking to the company and learning this is their standard practice, where would you take it from here as a ISA standards violation? report the company? talk to the company CA's about the issue (if it would even do anything)
 
[ QUOTE ]
Redwoods are often spiked during trims. Because their limbs often droop and don't lend themselves to holding a climbline secure,
It's a tough call with them sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]So maybe spike the first half, then advance the line where branches droop less?

Wait--won't SRT help here?

But spiking a birch; that is really sad.
 
Re: Certified Arborist Spike-Climb Pruning > Reason ??

[ QUOTE ]


After talking to the company and learning this is their standard practice, where would you take it from here as a ISA standards violation? report the company? talk to the company CA's about the issue (if it would even do anything)

[/ QUOTE ]

Today I called the City of Lake Oswego where these trees are. They are strict about tree preservation, and it's more or less an upper class suburb. With tons of trees.

Without mentioning the name of the company, I explained the scenerio. Cities like this, generally recommend Certified arborists, so I asked if they could add something educational to their newsletter that might help people avoid becoming targets for this kind of practice.

They called back this afternoon and said they talked among themselves and it sounded like a good idea to put in the publication mailed out to the homes in the city.
 
Re: Certified Arborist Spike-Climb Pruning > Reason ??

[ QUOTE ]


After talking to the company and learning this is their standard practice, where would you take it from here as a <font color="red"> ISA </font> standards violation? report the company? talk to the company CA's about the issue (if it would even do anything)

[/ QUOTE ]

Write your complaint on a <font color="red"> $100</font> bill if you want someone to look at it!
grin.gif
 
Re: Certified Arborist Spike-Climb Pruning &gt; Reason ??

Like all forms of professional certification there are those that will ignore the standards and leverage the designation to their advantage without care or concern for the "rules".

The solution, again like other professional associations, is to realize that the money you spend to obtain and maintain your certification is only worth it if you follow it up with action against those that undermine the value of the designation. If you don't then, like not voting, you have nothing to complain about.

When will we start to get indignant enough to call these companies out on their bad behaviour? HR is right to a point when he says the cert is useless, because we are not willing to protect it's value.
 
Re: Certified Arborist Spike-Climb Pruning &gt; Re

[quote

The solution, again like other professional associations, is to realize that the money you spend to obtain and maintain your certification is only worth it if you follow it up with action against those that undermine the value of the designation. If you don't then, like not voting, you have nothing to complain about.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well Put!
 
Re: Certified Arborist Spike-Climb Pruning &gt; Re

I have just recently seen two companies in my area that had ISA Certs make some poor statements.

One last year; I had recommended that a 1/2" diameter root be root pruning from a major root flare on a maple tree. (it was cutting into the growing root flare). The isa cert told the customer that it was NOT a girdling root because it did not go 3/4 to a full turn around the trunk/root flare. And he recommended that it NOT be root pruned off.

the customer believed me and I pruned it off.

The same property. A sugar maple (about 40 feet tall) had a limb/leader on the outside with a tight V shaped crotch. It was only going to get much worse as it grew. Diameter was 4 to 6 inches. I recommended that the limb be trimmed off now while it was relatively young so that they don't have problems with it years down the road. This actually also improved the shape of the tree. The same isa cert arborist said it would be too drastic of a cut and he recommended that it should not be trimmed off.

I have pictures of both and the writing of the certified arborist estimate. If anyone has interest in the pictures, I will post on request.

This year, I bid on a hazard tree that fell and is hung up 2 feet above a cabin roof. It's in the woods so the trees grew tall.

It's clearly a maple tree, I didn't state red or sugar maple in the estimate; so I'm not sure as I write this here as this was about 2 months ago. But another company (another isa cert arborist) wrote up an estimate and wrote it up as an Oak tree. I couldn't believe a cert arborist would make a mistake like this. I could see writing sycamore instead of london plane tree, but come on.... maple verses an oak!

I'm an ISA Certified Arborist, but more and more, the name is meaning less. What can we do?

My brother is a good arborist and he passed his isa cert arborist test a year or more ago. His secretary, whom has never done much of any tree work and has no experience, decided to study with him and she took the test too. Guess what?, she passed it the first time through also. She's a great person and she means well, but she has lots to learn. She's also good at studying and taking tests. She doesn't make crap up to customers though, if she doesn't know something, she calls me to see if I have an answer or finds an answer somewhere else.
 
Re: Certified Arborist Spike-Climb Pruning &gt; Re

It's not in the initial obtaining of the certification that the challenge lies. As she demonstrates, if your good at studying then taking the test is not going to be that difficult. It's in maintaining and further developing the knowledge and experience base. What your brother has is an informed person to make first contact with the prospective clients. This will reflect well on his company because she now understands better the basic info that she needs to obtain to make him more efficient. Good on her!

Xman's example is a matter of differing opinions. What really shows the quality of the individual is their rationale and the depth of knowledge that supports the opinion. Herein lies the next level of competition.
 
Re: Certified Arborist Spike-Climb Pruning &gt; Re

" The isa cert told the customer that it was NOT a girdling root because it did not go 3/4 to a full turn around the trunk/root flare."

We need to get "stem-girdling root" added to the Glossary so everyone can agree on a definition. If it girdles 1% of stem or buttress it is a girdling root.

"A sugar maple (about 40 feet tall) had a limb/leader on the outside with a tight V shaped crotch. It was only going to get much worse as it grew. Diameter was 4 to 6 inches. I recommended that the limb be trimmed off now while it was relatively young so that they don't have problems with it years down the road. This actually also improved the shape of the tree. The same isa cert arborist said it would be too drastic of a cut and he recommended that it should not be trimmed off."

If s/he recommended subordination instead what would you think?

"If anyone has interest in the pictures, I will post on request."

Please do!

"I'm an ISA Certified Arborist, but more and more, the name is meaning less. What can we do?"

Keep doing good work.

" His secretary, whom has never done much of any tree work and has no experience, decided to study with him and she took the test too. Guess what?, she passed it the first time through also. She's also good at studying and taking tests.

[/ QUOTE ]Well the ideal would be to have a practical field component to the test like in the UK and elsewhere, but logistically that would be hard to do for an international organization.

Yes people with high verbal skills have an advantage over those who know trees well but not words. One answer imo is to write the study guide and the test in simpler, non-college language, but that suggestion is not popular. Collegese has an air of authority about it guess, but it shuts out a lot of skilled arborists who do not talk or think that way.
 
Re: Certified Arborist Spike-Climb Pruning &gt; Re

A bunch of tree guys were doing a tree id session. The instructor had carefully selected the species provided the guys with a numbered sheet and asked they right the type of tree beside the number. At the end of the session he got the sheet back and the answers were, "Takedown" or "Pruning".
 
Re: Certified Arborist Spike-Climb Pruning &gt; Re

[ QUOTE ]
Yes people with high verbal skills have an advantage over those who know trees well but not words. One answer imo is to write the study guide and the test in simpler, non-college language, but that suggestion is not popular. Collegese has an air of authority about it guess, but it shuts out a lot of skilled arborists who do not talk or think that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guy, I believe you have addressed something here that is close to the root problem. I don't feel it is the Study Guide's verbage that is difficult to understand. In fact, most of that material is very rudimentary in its format.

However, the testing question style is very convoluted and is influenced by collegese. Very easy for someone who is familiar with that type of testing to wrap their mind around what is being asked. But for others, such as myself, it is a brick wall. If you want me to answer a question, ask it straight out. Don't make me try to guess what the question actually is. This is all within the wording. This is something that could easily be corrected and allow many with great field experience to acquire certification, which would be a benefit to our industry.

Dave
 
Re: Certified Arborist Spike-Climb Pruning &gt; Re

ok, here's the pictures, i'm finally following up on a post.

this from 2008.

another isa arborist said these roots should NOT be cut.
 

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Re: Certified Arborist Spike-Climb Pruning &gt; Re

that root after the prune
 

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Re: Certified Arborist Spike-Climb Pruning &gt; Re

another but very minor
 

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minor root cut
 

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