Cabling Trees... Your Opinion?

Hi all, thank you very much for your responses. Good to see the guys from the Netherlands on here /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif I had a feeling that cabling was a touchy subject and I didn't want to start a "cabling war". It was important for me to consider all the aspects though, and a forum is a great place to do that. I would certainly buy you all chips and beer if you were in Chicago /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I would say this - its very difficult to determing what is absolutely right and wrong about cabling. Just my humble homeowner opinion, but to really know the answer we would have to all be alive several hundred years from now. And my current consumption of chips and beer renders this unlikely. I am fascinated by trees because of their longevity, it is interesting to look at something and realize it will not reach its full potential until long after I am reduced to root fodder. Not that I am going to preserve a tree at all costs. There are a lot of factors in every situation, and there are lots of trees left in this world, and in my yard.

Couple of things. I can't see removing the silver maple by the deck. Its been there 30+ years and I would be pushing 80 before I could grow one back. So thats not happening, unless it is diseased, damaged etc. Could I remove the others by the shed? Maybe - but my wife would beat me - even worse than last week /forum/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Dynamic vs static - I would be inclined to do dynamic and check it yearly. Just because I don't think you are giving up that much strength with steel versus a polymer or whatever. Anything that comes along and would snap that rope is going to be catastrophic anyway. Long term it would have to be checked. UV deterioration, other types of weathering etc are just unknowns that have to be watched for. And I believe that - as can be seen by the many opinions here - its just impossible to know for sure what will happen; so check it frequently. Again, just my opinion.

Problem I have is that the tree guy only does static. So I have to decide what to do on that. I am going to post more details tomorrow on the exact quote and get your opinions.

Thanks again.
 
Wow, I finally read thru this post /forum/images/graemlins/ahhhhh.gif

Im gonna direct my comments right to Pondracer,

Having looked at the second set of pics you posted, I would recommend using dynamic cables in your trees. They do have inclusive unions and for the most part the trees are tall and leggy, a system that moves would be best for those trees. If your treeguy can only do static, find an arborist who does dynamic. Im sure a good arbo will be impressed that you even know of dynamic systems. I would be, because they are relatively new (compared to steel static systems) noone knows of them.
Also, be sure that the cables are installed at proper, usually 2/3 or 3/4 the height of the tree is best. Placed too low and they will be worthless.

Im curiuos as to your treeguys response when you asked about static or dynamic? Was he optimistic about dynamic or did he get on a rant about how steel is proven?
 
He didn't even understand what I was talking about. We are holding on the cabling and moving forward on spraying and pruning. I may do the cabling next month, before the boat gets here. Spreading my costs out a little.
 
How would pruning have helped this tree? I used bolts, not cable but still...
 

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Here's how it looked after I was done. We did this last summer, I just checked on it last week and all seems well. This is a small tree but without a DRILL and some invasive hardware, the tree would have been done for! Most likely it won't live as long as it would have without the damage but we bought some years. I also did prune the canopy to reduce weight.. got to run!
 

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[ QUOTE ]
How would pruning have helped this tree? I used bolts, not cable but still...

[/ QUOTE ]
NOT,

But Ezekiel, how do you think you helped the treeowner.

This job probably cost the treeowner a small fortune. I even wouldn't have done it for free....
It looks like a tree that's not even 10 years old. In my opinion you should have proposed a removal of the tree and a replant with a tree that has no bad crotches.

In about 8 years time the decay in the stem of that little willow is so far that the inner part between the bolts has gone bad. What are you gonna propose to the treeowner than? New "stitches"?
I think my option of planting a new problem free tree would be a better choise becouse at this moment he knows what can go wrong if a tree dousn't get proper care. So the next years you'll be in business pruning a wonderfull tree. /forum/images/graemlins/icon14.gif

Wolter
 
Come on now, If we removed every tree with a defect there would be none left. What happens when you plant the new tree and 4 years later it has a problem? Are you going to keep killing them until the perfect one emerges?

Dave
 
Well, we did offer the option of removal/replacement but they had just moved in and had limited budget. The bolts only cost 90.00 installed, took less than an hour and bought some time for the tree owner. Now don't get me wrong, I do belive in trying to be non-invasive whenever possible but it just won't always do. I also informed the tree owner of the long term issues they would face (eventual removal/replacement, potential for decay, continued monitoring, pass along the location/existance of the bolts to whom it may concern (new owners etc.). Based on the damage, our bolts are not going to be the origin of the decay. I just wanted to throw this one in here to make a point, in this case the bolts made sense to me, (am I crazy?) I feel we need to try to balance the well-being of the tree, the needs of the homeowner and the economic reality. This work can be very expensive and not everyone can afford the red carpet treatment. In this way we can satisfy all involved (not the least of which is the tree!) I guess it is like the doctors oath to do no harm, but we still have to work with the people who own the patient. Anyway, you go your way and I'll go mine, I love the fact that you feel so strongly about your work and stand by your beliefs.
 
LOl, this is funny talk.....

Its CRAP to fixe a problem like that, in that way, in such a small tree. Just cut it and stick a branche of that willow in the ground for a re-growth. THEN you can come back once a while to trim the wrong (inclined bark)branches BEFORE they can brake. In a willow its not always a fundamental BIG problem with those branches like that. Just be ON TIME to prune them out.

/forum/images/graemlins/aaa.gif

Off to bed, wifes calling....Cu, Ronald
 
[ QUOTE ]
Based on the damage, our bolts are not going to be the origin of the decay.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right Ezekiel, The bolts are not the starters. It's just that a well pruned new tree would be my option. And hé, who am I to disagree with the option you chose in this case if you discussed the removal option with the treeowner.

Just curious though, how old do you think this tree was.


In response to Dave.

If you plant a new tree and you do a good job on the pruning, there will not be a bad crotch like the one that broke out of this tree and jou don't need to kill every tree after 4 years.
The most important period of pruning in a trees life is in it's early years of growth. If you take out all the branches (maybe not at once) that form bad crotches, you are forming a quality backbone that lasts a long trees lifetime.

Wolter
 
Well, I would agree with you and Wolter that the ideal option would be remove/replant. However, we can't force the client to do what is ideal. It's their tree and their problem (for now). If they wanted it saved, then by all means, save it.

The problem I have with your suggestion is that you are saying to be on time to prune the tree and come back every few years. Yes, that is true, but the client has to call you (hire you) first. What happens when they don't call you? The willow developes a weak union and fails- and then they call you. Life is rarely ideal.
 
Maybe removal and replacement is the best option, however, no one has mentioned that this appears to be very young and vigorous tree. I've seen wounds like that get bolted back together, the tree then grows around it and never looks back. That wound was bad enough that it might always have a visible seam, but I have never seen a willow that didn't have seams and cracks running all over it. The willows we work on are especially bad because they were a favorite for topping years ago. IMHO that tree has a very good chance of living to a ripe old age.
 
[ QUOTE ]

The problem I have with your suggestion is that you are saying to be on time to prune the tree and come back every few years. Yes, that is true, but the client has to call you (hire you) first. What happens when they don't call you? The willow developes a weak union and fails- and then they call you. Life is rarely ideal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mark, in one of the posts I made before on this thread I stated:

[ QUOTE ]
I think my option of planting a new problem free tree would be a better choise becouse at this moment he knows what can go wrong if a tree dousn't get proper care. So the next years you'll be in business pruning a wonderfull tree.

[/ QUOTE ]

By the "at this moment he knows" in my quote I ment the treeowner. If they don't keep the tree in shape by calling us Arbs, we can't help him for sure, but this treeowner has been warned, so he probably won't forget.

[ QUOTE ]
However, we can't force the client to do what is ideal. It's their tree and their problem (for now). If they wanted it saved, then by all means, save it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I already agreed on that one :-)

[ QUOTE ]
And hé, who am I to disagree with the option you chose in this case if you discussed the removal option with the treeowner.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wolter /forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Guys, no offence to youre efforts, its just not my idea to do it that way.

I would recommanded a removal and replant with a sprout from that tree again. Thats the usual way willows are multiplied at grenery's. You can put a 4inch branch 2feet deep in the ground and it will grow. For 90$ thats a usable option to.

The argument that replant is no good option with the future care needed still counts for this fixed willow, it need also more care in future. So its a point you have to sell to the custumor that CARE is needed on reguarly bases. Like comming back every 3-4 years or earlier/later if needed. Its MUCH cheaper to remove false crotches/prune a tree reguarly then comming to do some patchwork or busting of to big grown low hanging limbs etc..

Who has an price offer to do this tree attached?
 

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I suggest a full program, fertilize, cable, brace, Dormant Oil, 2 Fungicide Sprays, Early - Mid & Late Seasons Sprays, its by a roadside so it'll need some antidescicant, prune to reduce weight loads, prune to reduce sail effect, soil needs aerating, and of course mulching.

/forum/images/graemlins/bling.gif
 
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