Busted irrigation, who pays?

F

Fltreeguy

Location
Apopka
I was out on a job yesterday taking down two large pines. I was using a lift and dropping the logs in pieces to the ground. A pipe and valve broke on the irrigation. The customer called someone out while I was there to repair it, $400-500 to fix. On our estimates it says we aren’t liable for any underground damages and they sign the estimate. The customer calls the office asking if our insurance covers this and we remind them that we aren’t liable because we can’t avoid what we can’t see. Would you cover the cost or stick to what your estimate says? I’m a fairly new business so the potential of having a bad review makes me question it. Thoughts?
 
I'm looking forward to the comments from the veterans. As a bystander and not a pro, I'm wondering how big the print on the estimate is that says you are not responsible for the underground damage. I'm also wondering if the customer said anything to you about the existence of the irrigation system before you gave them the estimate.

As an amateur, I'd like to think I'd try to avoid damage to underground stuff like irrigation systems or septic tanks if I could. I would probably want to charge a higher price to cover all of the extra work involved in rigging stuff out gently. Which would also mean I probably would not have acquired the work in the first place.

All of that is what would hopefully happen before the damage was done. After the fact, I can see you are in a bind with this situation. I know a deal is a deal, but I think I'd still pay for the damage, and try to learn from the situation. I'd rather come away with a happy customer who sings my praises to the next person they talk to about tree work. I am an ignorant cuss, though, which is why I also look forward to hearing from the veterans. I'm just trying to push this snowball down a hill at the moment, hoping it picks up speed.

Tim
 
I’ve gotten lucky. The water meter I broke and the one irrigation sprinkler never had any issues with. I don’t. Even know the price of repair.
I offered to fix the sprinkler, and it was declined.
The meter wasn’t my fault, but if it were pressed I’d likely pay for it.
I’d be more specific on the terms and conditions to include irrigation, septic or all/any underground utilities unless marked at the time of the quote. Any changes voids the quote and defaults to hourly.
 
Depends on how much spare time you have. I'd bet it is not more than $50 in parts. If you know where it is broken, shouldn't take too long to fix... I've fixed pipes I've cut while digging. Good customer relations.

Was there any visible sign of the irrigation system? Even sprinkler heads...I put cones over those when i see them then ask the client if there are others around. If you knew there was an irrigation system and still bombed pieces, I'd say it is on you. If you discussed with client and they said there is nothing to worry about, I'd revisit that conversation. If you neglected to ask, call it a learning experience and repair it.
 
My contract says all underground utilities have to be clearly marked. I also am not responsible for cracked driveways. I stick to the contract and clearly explain the potential for damage. Fortunately I am only a subcontractor The other day I matted in with the crane. Everything went well until a super soft spot. The entire mat sunk in the yard a few inches. Naturally there was a sprinkler line under it and I told the primary contractor before the job I’d likely leave depressions even with mats down. Honestly I tried to talk him out of using me on this project for several reasons. When I pulled out and picked up the mats I noticed the break and so did the primary contractor. I didn’t even give it a second look. Packed up and went home. Didn’t bother me a bit. Years ago I ran over a well cap and that was expensive. I had the disclaimer on the contract but the homeowner was new to the house and didn’t know it was there. Rather than loosing a client who was paying me 12k I split the repairs with him. Cost me about $800. Glad I did because after his house burned down he brought me back in the clear the lot before he rebuilt. So it’s a case by case basis I think. Hard to say. It different now because I’m just a sub.
 
The ongoing word of mouth is worth the happy resolution. But if clearly discussed as well as excepted on quote that doesnt mean pay for whatever bill is asked. Sometimes your own contractor contacts to get an expensive job completed professionally for sub rate can complete your end of the deal.

If it’s unknown services like Steve’s experience is good idea to go halves if you can afford it. Happened to me with lift through septic lid. I had flimsy(plumbing map) identifying two tanks, and there was a third I went through not on map. Client paid materials, I paid transport and labour.

Or repair as ATH said. One company I used to work for had an irrigation repair kit in truck to keep things sweet with clients, and save runs to hardware - even billing them the cost if discussed and put on quote ie client cannot remember what is there and arrangement struck...

I usually take note of what irrigation and services are there when I inspect as it changes how I complete the task. I have started quotes avoiding all irrigation and client has corrected me saying all irrigation was coming out in next few months and sprinkler heads ($$) could be removed by client before job starts, so worth the conversation every time.

I also write down what services were identified by client, and waiver anything not identified on the quote.
 
I will fix everytime unless clients decline. I am.a hawk when doing quotes on removals. I need to know my targets. I am a low impact guy. I work in very tight environs. I never get the air mail send it jobs. Too expensive. I get paid to rope. These folks do not like divots.....anyway reputation is huge on this island not worth it to not pay for damages incurred. Chalk it up as experience. I would bring in my own irrigation guy. Prob do that for a hundo......
 
Here tree work is often bargained down, enough so where you have to start writing exclusions so it goes with territory
 
Heads and funny pipe or PVC are easy to fix.

Unless you hit damn near all of them when soil injecting.

Or the mainline.

Or the downspout lines to the curb with compressed air and that shit shoots out the downspout and the gutter and breaks a bay window.

Bad day.
 
We fix breaks from rigging or felling. We will not fix breaks from stump grinding. It is our responsibility to bring a tree down in a controlled manner. That’s the service we sell. I believe the answer to your question is; what service did you sell? Yes I have have a super good attorney that has built me a contract that says I dont have to fix it, but... I sell a premium service. Do you?
 
If you spent money on an attorney working up a template to insulate you from unknown underground mishaps, then I wouldn't go out of my way to buy trouble. Otherwise, why bother having an exclusion section in your contract. They didn't identify underground obstacles, and stuff got bent. It's clearly their issue.
 
cerviarborist said:
If you spent money on an attorney working up a template to insulate you from unknown underground mishaps, then I wouldn't go out of my way to buy trouble. Otherwise, why bother having an exclusion section in your contract. They didn't identify underground obstacles, and stuff got bent. It's clearly their issue.
Click to expand...

Agreed, as long as the demarcation of responsibility is discussed on inspection or setting conditions for he job.

If a client start to expect premium service and you to assume responsibility for all the aspects of the job, then you call in resources and use your time to investigate and charge accordingly. If the client wants to manage the risk by having you quote low then it’s his. Clearly defined is the key...
 
Our go-to on that, in spite of having a clear “not our problem” clause in the contract, is to offer to split the cost with the homeowner, or if it’s small and we like them, to offer to pay for it all. However, before making any offers, we always point out that they signed to agree that it’s not our fault, so we are doing the repairs as a courtesy.
 
cerviarborist said:
If you spent money on an attorney working up a template to insulate you from unknown underground mishaps, then I wouldn't go out of my way to buy trouble. Otherwise, why bother having an exclusion section in your contract. They didn't identify underground obstacles, and stuff got bent. It's clearly their issue.
Click to expand...
The clause is there to protect us from BIG issues. Say like a septic system we were not informed about. If it’s no big deal, then it’s no big deal. It’s just second mile service. You should see the look on the customers face when you tell them, “as you know, it’s not our responsibility, but we want to fix it for you anyway”. I didn’t pay an attorney to come up with just that clause. It was part of an entire contract he created.
 
Slight derail, lots of talk about contracts on this thread. Is there a boiler plate tree service contract out there that I could tweak to suit my own needs?
 
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