Bradford pear trees topped need some Advice
- Thread starter brad700
- Start date
- Location
- Springfield, MO USA
thanx for spending all the time on this x. I do appreciate what you are saying, and all I can say is that I have done, and still do all these things you are showing. My intent was not to try to pursuade all arborists to top bradford pears, but to show one of the ways I have had to deal with them in situations here in Springfield, MO, in tornado and ice storm alley. Yes, I am a BCMA, and I am so sorry to disappoint you all, but it is my job (my living) to find a way to take away the pain from these folks who have chosen the wrong trees, and can't or won't afford to take them out and plant something proper. As I said before, this is my ONLY exception to the rule, I do not top any other trees-- does it make it right? I guess it depends on who you ask.
p.s. I wish I could show you all the pictures I should have taken of pears that I have bolted, cabled, and reduced properly that were flopped out on the ground over the last 2 years of ice and wind around here. talk about pissed off customers! I am trying not to take too defensive of a stance here, I'm ok with some of you thinking less of me, I still can't find a way to be disappointed in myself for treating pears like I do. X-man, you have given some really good info for people who want to try to prune these guys according to standards.
p.s. I wish I could show you all the pictures I should have taken of pears that I have bolted, cabled, and reduced properly that were flopped out on the ground over the last 2 years of ice and wind around here. talk about pissed off customers! I am trying not to take too defensive of a stance here, I'm ok with some of you thinking less of me, I still can't find a way to be disappointed in myself for treating pears like I do. X-man, you have given some really good info for people who want to try to prune these guys according to standards.
- Location
- mon co, nj
Noel, Noel, Noel Noel. Please do not back pedal or try to justify a lame way of saying your trying to help the customer. We everyday are put into a position in which we make decsions, right or wrong. Those cuts were wrong. Black and white. Tomorrow I think I will make silver maples the exception to the topping rule. Thursday will be norway and friday I will pick from a hat. STOP TOPPING!!
- Location
- Springfield, MO USA
Nothing is black or white, right or wrong. never say never or always. no backpedaling, no apologies, just my own beliefs. thanks for your input, and again for your condescending tone. I feel like the 15 year old son just caught with a pack of cigs or a 6-pak of beer!
Noel,
I understand your struggle to try to please the customer and perhaps your weather is even harder on these pears than ours; which would make the topping choice more tempting, I guess.
I went to your web-site. Very informative and professional. The bradford pear part is the only part I didn't agree with.
Calm down there Cuttenwolf.
You see, cuttenwolf has been pissed lately because he's been trimming trees that others have topped. They are irritating to work in and the end result doesn't turn out as good. While we are working in those thick sprouts we are cursing those that did that work. So, anyone that tops is due to get some anger from those that try to do it right.
I understand your struggle to try to please the customer and perhaps your weather is even harder on these pears than ours; which would make the topping choice more tempting, I guess.
I went to your web-site. Very informative and professional. The bradford pear part is the only part I didn't agree with.
Calm down there Cuttenwolf.
You see, cuttenwolf has been pissed lately because he's been trimming trees that others have topped. They are irritating to work in and the end result doesn't turn out as good. While we are working in those thick sprouts we are cursing those that did that work. So, anyone that tops is due to get some anger from those that try to do it right.
I'm glad you came out and showed how you have been trimming pears that have been topped by someone in the past and have bad V crotches.
Because I'm sure there are plenty of Licensed Tree Experts and Certified Arborist out there that do it just like that.
It's good to get this out there and talk about it. Most people wouldn't have done that and even more would not have posted pictures of their work. So thanks.
Because I'm sure there are plenty of Licensed Tree Experts and Certified Arborist out there that do it just like that.
It's good to get this out there and talk about it. Most people wouldn't have done that and even more would not have posted pictures of their work. So thanks.
- Location
- tulsa oklahoma
Hey X, I dont care what you think is right or wrong or not, as many others dont. A bradford is an ornamental tree that is meant to be ornamental. I see the pear trees that you made reduction cuts on, and I have to say that the trees Noel performed a "severe crown reduction" on or "topping" or whatever you want to call it, looked way better than the pictures of the pear trees you pruned.
Right or wrong, doesnt matter, as a homeowner and arborist, I would be way more pleased with the shape and appearance of Noels job.
BOOYAH!!!
Right or wrong, doesnt matter, as a homeowner and arborist, I would be way more pleased with the shape and appearance of Noels job.
BOOYAH!!!
"right or wrong doesn't matter", huh?
Okay then, lets fill holes in trees with concrete again. We could paint fake bark on it. Heck, that would look a lot better than a hole, because you wouldn't even notice it. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, it's what looks best that counts now: According to FlashTreeTop1.
Do you "Top Trees In a Flash"?
Good name for ya.
Okay then, lets fill holes in trees with concrete again. We could paint fake bark on it. Heck, that would look a lot better than a hole, because you wouldn't even notice it. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, it's what looks best that counts now: According to FlashTreeTop1.
Do you "Top Trees In a Flash"?
Good name for ya.
One more thing Flashtopper,
"Hey X, I don’t care what you think is right or wrong or not, as many others don’t."
Then click on "ignore user" for my name and you'll never have to see something that I post again.
I wasn't aware that many on this forum don't care what I have to say.
I care to hear what Noel writes or anyone else, whether we agree or not. Especially if they present it the way he did.
So Flash, back to your statement of: it doesn't matter what is right or wrong, it's that shape and appearance that counts.
Here is a picture of a resprouted topped tree. I'm sure this thing is full and round in the growing season. I bet it looks just like little Johny's tree picture he drew in 3rd grade. Oh, how pretty. I guess it must have been trimmed right.
I hear this crap from many uninformed homeowners all the time: "Tree company xyz came in here three years ago, topped the crap out of that tree, I thought it was going to die. But now, in the summer, it's thick and perfectly round, they must have known what they were doing.... "
"Hey X, I don’t care what you think is right or wrong or not, as many others don’t."
Then click on "ignore user" for my name and you'll never have to see something that I post again.
I wasn't aware that many on this forum don't care what I have to say.
I care to hear what Noel writes or anyone else, whether we agree or not. Especially if they present it the way he did.
So Flash, back to your statement of: it doesn't matter what is right or wrong, it's that shape and appearance that counts.
Here is a picture of a resprouted topped tree. I'm sure this thing is full and round in the growing season. I bet it looks just like little Johny's tree picture he drew in 3rd grade. Oh, how pretty. I guess it must have been trimmed right.
I hear this crap from many uninformed homeowners all the time: "Tree company xyz came in here three years ago, topped the crap out of that tree, I thought it was going to die. But now, in the summer, it's thick and perfectly round, they must have known what they were doing.... "
Attachments
- Location
- tulsa oklahoma
X the reason I came across the way that I did is because of the way that you did. Condesending and rude towards Noel. It doesnt make you very happy does it X.
My point X is that there is a big difference between topping a bradford, and severely topping a big red oak, or any other large tree that needs those limbs for its structure. Those bradfords that noel worked on will be fine.
X, I do care what you say, I just wanted to give you a taste of your own.
And know, my co. does not do any topping, except for Bradfords. I have not topped a tree in 8 years. I was 19 then, and dumb!
My point X is that there is a big difference between topping a bradford, and severely topping a big red oak, or any other large tree that needs those limbs for its structure. Those bradfords that noel worked on will be fine.
X, I do care what you say, I just wanted to give you a taste of your own.
And know, my co. does not do any topping, except for Bradfords. I have not topped a tree in 8 years. I was 19 then, and dumb!
- Location
- mon co, nj
I have to stick to my guns(and beliefs). Every excuse I hear about why to top bradfords are the same excuses I hear guys say when the have topped another species. If your exception is bradfords and my exception is cherry then where are we. Oh yeah tree co. ABC will not top either one but believes its ok to top silver maple. Then we have an industry that is trying to set a standard that is kinda wishy washy. I am not so naive to understand that at times things happen, but to promote something that seems to clearly go against standards can only create anarchy. If someone is taking this personal, I guess it is becuase that is the way I take it when trying to "fix" the butcher jobs I encounter.
easyphloem
Branched out member
- Location
- Louisville, KY
I would like to say that I resent FlashTreetop1 co-opting my "Boo-Ya" catchphrase (which I stole from Stuart Scott)
But in essence I agree with his assessment of Noel's handiwork.
Bradford Pears are a scourge. Many people love them. I always counsel clients to delay all outlay of cash on a Bradford until it is time for it to come down, or clean up the fallen mess.
This whole holier than thou, "where do we draw the line?" bull plop will rage on forever.
The fight between good arborists and evil, Bradford Pear hating arborists will continue harmlessly on the messageboards of Treebuzz.
SZ
But in essence I agree with his assessment of Noel's handiwork.
Bradford Pears are a scourge. Many people love them. I always counsel clients to delay all outlay of cash on a Bradford until it is time for it to come down, or clean up the fallen mess.
This whole holier than thou, "where do we draw the line?" bull plop will rage on forever.
The fight between good arborists and evil, Bradford Pear hating arborists will continue harmlessly on the messageboards of Treebuzz.
SZ
- Location
- mon co, nj
Simply put; standards say when cutting on the ground one must wear chainsaw protective pants. Do I occasionaly not use chainsaw protective pants? Yes. Do I believe they should be worn? Yes. So just because there may be a special circumstance every now and then does not mean I am selling that product. Good and evil is not the issue. Selling a product that I do not agree with is what I am writing about and against. Just my opinion.
- Location
- NJ
[ QUOTE ]
I am a BCMA, and I top/ severly reduce bradford pears
[/ QUOTE ]
Aren't these type of guys supposed to have their, cert pulled from them. Should there be some sort of penalty for doing improper tree work when you are supposed to be the leading example in this feild. Yet one more reason I say the certs are all BS.
[ QUOTE ]
Then click on "ignore user" for my name and you'll never have to see something that I post again.
I wasn't aware that many on this forum don't care what I have to say.
[/ QUOTE ]
hmmm welcome to my house now X man. seems alot of these so called pros on here want to tell you your wrong but when you make a piont their feathers get ruffled and your the bung hole
[ QUOTE ]
the butcher jobs
[/ QUOTE ]
please don't call a certified hack a butcher, a Butcher is a true pro.
I am a BCMA, and I top/ severly reduce bradford pears
[/ QUOTE ]
Aren't these type of guys supposed to have their, cert pulled from them. Should there be some sort of penalty for doing improper tree work when you are supposed to be the leading example in this feild. Yet one more reason I say the certs are all BS.
[ QUOTE ]
Then click on "ignore user" for my name and you'll never have to see something that I post again.
I wasn't aware that many on this forum don't care what I have to say.
[/ QUOTE ]
hmmm welcome to my house now X man. seems alot of these so called pros on here want to tell you your wrong but when you make a piont their feathers get ruffled and your the bung hole
[ QUOTE ]
the butcher jobs
[/ QUOTE ]
please don't call a certified hack a butcher, a Butcher is a true pro.
yeah.
I actually feel sorry for him, because I think he's sorry he ever posted this. I would be if I was him.
I'm sure he worked hard to get his bcma.
I was wondering to myself when I learned he was a Board Certified Arborist if the thread could be pulled to save him.
I thought the same thing, I think if this thread was reported to ISA he could lose his Master Certification.
I actually feel sorry for him, because I think he's sorry he ever posted this. I would be if I was him.
I'm sure he worked hard to get his bcma.
I was wondering to myself when I learned he was a Board Certified Arborist if the thread could be pulled to save him.
I thought the same thing, I think if this thread was reported to ISA he could lose his Master Certification.
Flashtop, I understood you were defending your buzz buddy.
I've been on here a long time.
And no, it doesn't bother me a bit. I've got a plenty thick enough buzz skin.
When I first joined I was attacked plenty and got into plenty of fights, much like Holleriche (sp.?)
I quickly learned it is just words and it adds a little drama and makes good reading for others. Plus it's a safe way to vent anger. check out how many times a thread is viewed when there is controversy.
No problem man, untill the next fight....
I've been on here a long time.
And no, it doesn't bother me a bit. I've got a plenty thick enough buzz skin.
When I first joined I was attacked plenty and got into plenty of fights, much like Holleriche (sp.?)
I quickly learned it is just words and it adds a little drama and makes good reading for others. Plus it's a safe way to vent anger. check out how many times a thread is viewed when there is controversy.
No problem man, untill the next fight....
- Location
- tulsa oklahoma
Nothing is going to happen to Noel over this. You guys are not the TREE POLICE. Period. Worry about your work and the way you believe it should be done. (even if it does not look as good as Noel's work.)
Let me change my 1st statement, nothing will happen to Noel unless you all try to make something of it. Which I would not put past a few of you.
Hey X do you talk [bad word] about other tree services with your customers. Wouldnt suprise me. You call other tree services idiots on your public website. I know you are that type of guy. The kind that cant just let his work speak for itself, you gotta talk [bad word] on others work. Am I right. Yes or no?
Derrick Hulsey
Let me change my 1st statement, nothing will happen to Noel unless you all try to make something of it. Which I would not put past a few of you.
Hey X do you talk [bad word] about other tree services with your customers. Wouldnt suprise me. You call other tree services idiots on your public website. I know you are that type of guy. The kind that cant just let his work speak for itself, you gotta talk [bad word] on others work. Am I right. Yes or no?
Derrick Hulsey
- Location
- Louisville, KY
EZ- "Boo-yah" recently entered the Limbwalker lexicon through yet another source: a Sponge Bob Square Pants t-shirt. Ask TR. Must be part of the zeitgeist.
X-man, calm down. I know Noel to be a very astute, intelligent, thoughtful, and competent arborist. To address his question in the manner you have displays an ignorance of his credentials and a complete lack of tact.
I think all thinking arborists know that Bradford pears present a very peculiar situation. These medium sized ornamental do not seem to suffer AT ALL from topping; in fact, you could argue that the average life of Bradford pears could be in fact prolonged by topping.
Now we compare reduction vs. topping. Reduction has always left me feeling empty: due to the length of sections between large nodes, reduction of Bradford pears is almost the same as thinning. And it looks pretty bad.
Will a topped Bradford pear fail and cause severe damage to persons or property? I don't think so. Are topped Bradford pears less healthy or more prone to breakage than reduced or un-pruned Bradford pears? Not in my experience. What about a late pollarding?? How about topping with the intent of establishing pollard heads? B. pears seem to compartmentalize well.
X-man, I think that your responses do not foster the kind of academic discussion that I appreciate.
X-man, calm down. I know Noel to be a very astute, intelligent, thoughtful, and competent arborist. To address his question in the manner you have displays an ignorance of his credentials and a complete lack of tact.
I think all thinking arborists know that Bradford pears present a very peculiar situation. These medium sized ornamental do not seem to suffer AT ALL from topping; in fact, you could argue that the average life of Bradford pears could be in fact prolonged by topping.
Now we compare reduction vs. topping. Reduction has always left me feeling empty: due to the length of sections between large nodes, reduction of Bradford pears is almost the same as thinning. And it looks pretty bad.
Will a topped Bradford pear fail and cause severe damage to persons or property? I don't think so. Are topped Bradford pears less healthy or more prone to breakage than reduced or un-pruned Bradford pears? Not in my experience. What about a late pollarding?? How about topping with the intent of establishing pollard heads? B. pears seem to compartmentalize well.
X-man, I think that your responses do not foster the kind of academic discussion that I appreciate.
- Location
- Springfield, MO USA
[ QUOTE ]
I actually feel sorry for him, because I think he's sorry he ever posted this. I would be if I was him.
I'm sure he worked hard to get his bcma.
I was wondering to myself when I learned he was a Board Certified Arborist if the thread could be pulled to save him.
I thought the same thing, I think if this thread was reported to ISA he could lose his Master Certification.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty much done with this thread, but for the record: Not sorry. I did work hard to get it. I am a good arborist. Not worried about someone on here trying to bully me around or report me. I put my full name on everything on here (unlike some others). I was happy to be a part of the discussion. Disappointed in all the personal attacks--not just on me, but others, too. I am finding this to be a trend here, I think I'll find a more positive outlet for my energy. Later, taters.
I actually feel sorry for him, because I think he's sorry he ever posted this. I would be if I was him.
I'm sure he worked hard to get his bcma.
I was wondering to myself when I learned he was a Board Certified Arborist if the thread could be pulled to save him.
I thought the same thing, I think if this thread was reported to ISA he could lose his Master Certification.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty much done with this thread, but for the record: Not sorry. I did work hard to get it. I am a good arborist. Not worried about someone on here trying to bully me around or report me. I put my full name on everything on here (unlike some others). I was happy to be a part of the discussion. Disappointed in all the personal attacks--not just on me, but others, too. I am finding this to be a trend here, I think I'll find a more positive outlet for my energy. Later, taters.
