Do not promote topping.
I wish this thread was erased or at least didn’t have a Board Master Certified Arborist posting pictures of topped trees and saying it is something that he does. If you are saying it is something that you do, then you are promoting it. As an ISA Certified Arborist, I feel the need to say that it is wrong and should not be done. If this pisses people off, then so be it.
I just re-read everything from my first post. I searched to see if I was ever attacking, condescending, rude or needed to calm down my discussion to Noel.
I did not find even one sentence that was any of these things.
I actually gave him praise several times.
I only got “smart” with flashtop, because that’s the way he was with me.
I think Noel and his two buddies Flashtop and KyLimbwalker think that I’m being rude and attacking simply because I am not agreeing with the work he did. I don’t believe he ever hears someone disagreeing with his work and this is why it seems rude. Go back and read all of my posts to Noel. Where was I once Rude or talking down to him (condescending).
I guess we must be acting like “tree Gods” or “tree police” to ever question the work of a Board Certified Master Arborist. Or else I guess it is blasphemy maybe to not agree with him or his minions. (okay, poking a little fun there by using minions).
Flashtop, to answer your question: I actually do not talk bad to my customers about the other tree companies in my area. I do generalize the bad ones sometimes by calling them, “hacks”, “hillbillies”, “idiots” or just a “guy and a pickup truck”. Because these are the ones that hurt my business by doing things much cheaper because they do not have the insurance, education and running costs as we do. Plus if they hack up a tree: I have to spend more time with a customer to try and convince them not to have their tree done like the person down the street. -OR- Maybe I have to present a customer with an expensive estimate (which I may not get) on trying to correct their tree after a topping 5 years prior, when it would have been a lot faster and cheaper if it hadn’t been topped.
I believe that most tree services work very hard for their money and I respect the tree services around me. If a competitor tree service in the area has a problem, I am quick to help. I surely do not do it for financial gain, as I never come out ahead monetarily. I have climbed for many in the area when they had a sick climber or lost a climber, I have finished jobs for them, I have loaned them equipment and used our crane to help them. I give them advice that improved their productivity; that has surely hurt me financially. I do it because it’s a good thing to help people and I have a respect for tree service business owners. I won’t likely get ahead in business doing this, but maybe if I need help someday, they will help me, or surely it goes well with the man upstairs.
When I first learned Noel is a BCMA I honestly got worried that him posting pictures like that might hurt him. I wish he would say something to make it better.
Noel repeatedly saying he’s not sorry he ever posted the pictures and comments is a fallacy. Because who wouldn’t be sorry.
When I first got on treebuzz years ago, I posted some pictures of a large oak we saved that was up-rooting into a river. I installed guide cables and used ¾” threaded rods through the tree as the anchor points. The rods were left quite long, the amon eyes were not near the bark. I was slammed on treebuzz and was told it was crappy work (in short). And I wasn’t told in a nice way if I recall correctly. Anyway, I was sorry that I ever posted those pictures; why? Because they were right, it wasn’t to proper cabling standards. Even though that large tree doesn’t move in the wind and those rods aren’t going to get metal fatigue, it was not to proper standards and I shouldn’t have shown it as my work on a public forum. Now, I wasn’t an ISA Certified Arborist back then, so at least I wasn’t degrading the Certified Arborist image.
I don’t like seeing an ISA Certified Arborist, a Certified Tree Expert and certainly not a Board Certified Master Arborist topping trees. These are the top guys in the industry that should be showing that they follow the American National Standard.
He put it on a public forum and in doing so is promoting it simply by showing that this is what he does and will continue to do. It wouldn’t matter much if he wasn’t a BCMA. If it was a new tree service owner that had no credentials to his name, well, (everyone would probably pounce on him and tell him what he’s doing wrong). But it wouldn’t matter that much because he doesn’t have a title and the ISA reputation to keep.
It’s like this: If a 25 year old trailer park kid goes to Walmart and steals and gets caught. It’s not that big of a deal, who is he representing? What, just 25 year-olds with maybe a rough life.
But, lets say a Police Officer that’s been on the force for 10 years, goes into Walmart and he gets caught for stealing. IT’S A BIG FREAKIN DEAL. He should follow the law, he is representing a law-biding organization. It is not just his reputation his is risking, it is the reputation of the whole police force.
I don’t want Noel to get in trouble and I doubt he would. But, as long as this is on a public forum, I feel someone has to stand up on the forum and say that this topping should not be done. I would not even think about “turning him in”, I think this should end here. I’m not going to say it was a crown reduction or some other term that is an accepted practice. I sure would like to, but it’s not. I wish he never posted those pictures. Why? Because I’m an ISA Certified Arborist too. Just like a cop that doesn’t want the public to see another cop doing something wrong.
I really wish tree buzz didn’t have a BMCA posting pictures of topped trees and saying it is something that he does. If you are saying it is something that you do, then you are promoting it. I as an ISA Certified Arborist, I feel the need to say that it is wrong and should not be done. If this pisses people off, then so be it.
If someone else adds to this post saying that this topping is okay, I’m going to continue the discussion.
Now, I’d like to see a few more people step up and say this is wrong, or at least vote on the survey I posted earlier. So far, to the question, “Is it Okay to top a bradford pear?”, 3 people clicked YES, 12 people clicked NO. That’s good to see.
