bowline not as life support

For the record, I use the bowline for rigging. I've never considered it for my climb line. It has never come untied for me.

This thread though is a discussion of what, from any search of books and discussion forums, appears to be a known issue. This thread is visiting this issue as it should. Was it presented the right way? It could have been done better. But that goes for many threads that attempt to deal with a contentious issue.

Reading the entry for the bowline in The Ashley book of knots there is a quote from Alston's Seamanship of 1871 about the problem of the knot capsizing. Here they also state the problem is with the knot being tied improperly.

So, the discussion is about how to tie it properly and what variations would be appropriate for our application.

This, imho, doesn't dilute the quality of treebuzz.
 
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So, the discussion is about how to tie it properly and what variations would be appropriate for our application.

This, imho, doesn't dilute the quality of treebuzz.

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Rob, your 'honest opinion' is totally believable and clearly without agenda. Thankyou.

The fact that some variations came out of the thread is not the point I was making about diluting. The weak part is the original video of a pathetically, illogically tied knot ....unloaded, in an unrealistic environment.

The very title of the thread, did not come with a question mark, it was a statement.

IMHO Rob, a bowline is within basic of the basics of treework....hence my suggestion of a beginners forum....and even then the video should be considered flawed and misleading. I was always under the impression of TB being a pro-site, and where fair representation goes without saying. The lack-of in this particular thread is whats making me uncomfortable.
 
Reg, I like you. I like the photos and videos you post.
However.......
I do find it odd that you are sitting astride a high horse berating Richard for his bowline video in light of your recent vid re. MS201 vs truck amateur hour theatrics. Something not cricket about that, mate.
 
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Reg, I like you. I like the photos and videos you post.
However.......
I do find it odd that you are sitting astride a high horse berating Richard for his bowline video in light of your recent vid re. MS201 vs truck amateur hour theatrics. Something not cricket about that, mate.

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I thought I answered that already? Again, the main difference being that I didn't start a thread about my video on treebuzz. FYI, Im not sponsored by Husqvarna or anyone else either. I've had my second thoughts about the chainsaw video since, but thats just how I was feeling that evening. Its not out of character. If you knew me you would know that.
 
Whatever.
Some of youse want to sit in judgement and launch rocks from behind the security of houses with glass walls.
Not buying what you're selling. Thanks.
 
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Whatever.
Some of youse want to sit in judgement and launch rocks from behind the security of houses with glass walls.
Not buying what you're selling. Thanks.

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Im not launching rocks, Im calling BS. Theres a difference.

As for houses glass walls....are you calling me a coward now ?

In case you haven't noticed, Im not camera shy, thats my mut on the videos. Im not hiding.

Ive said it many times before. I'll be at TCI expo in the fall, same as every year. I'll be at the stein booth, with a name badge on 'Reg'. There will be no glass wall in place, or any other security in place for that matter. If people want to talk to me, vent, whatever. thats where I'll be.
 
Reg,

I think the blowback you are receiving here is due to the fact that you have piled on with Riggs in a vicious character attack to YoYo who is a good and sincere man. Even though he is not a professional arborist, he knows a lot about climbing and is dedicated to the craft. His contribution here has been completely misinterpreted with people bagging on him without even discussing the subtlety of his observations. A person of your stature (admit it, Reg, your a leader in our industry!) berating people and suggesting that they go to a novice forum, is beneath you. Calling his observations "BS" is just plain rude. There is a way to express your points without resorting to belittling others and using coarse language.

You yourself are something of a newbie to the Pacific Northwest. Just a few years ago the biggest trees you were climbing were Beech trees in Jolly Old England. Don't think for a minute that because you have a GO PRO and time to edit videos that other guys can't work circles around you. Show some humility yourself! A true leader knows that and uses language in a careful fashion. Your distinction between novices and pros is totally unhelpful and will only serve to degrade the forum further--not elevate it.
 
Reg, your points are well taken. It's called the king of the knots for a reason and we understand that.
Sometimes in these threads the messenger is shot instead of a reframing of the statement to better present the point trying to be made.
 
"Riggs, I give up, you are an experienced and knowledgeable climber but you are missing the point and you're not going to listen so there's really nothing more for me to write. I'm not bashing the bowline, I can tie it in all of its many forms and I would trust my life to it but there are so many better choices when it comes to life support.
Did it happen, could it happen again? Yes and possibly.
101 vs. Experienced? Once again check your accident reports."

-"Riggs, I give up "
White flag all you want , you can't surrender and still mumble and kick stones .

-"I would trust my life to it but there are so many better choices when it comes to life support. " wait one second , who said that ? put the white flag back in your pocket .

-"101 vs. Experienced? Once again check your accident reports."
not counting kid years , in all the accidents I have ever seen or have been part of , had nothing to do with a bowline coming undone .

-"you're not going to listen so there's really nothing more for me to write."
I didn't just listen , I watched you tie a loose knot and backfeed it to come undone , and read that you said it shouldn't be used as life support .
Back pedal all you want , you posted the video . You ( yo yo ) mis represented a knot , If that is the way you want to teach , go for it , I could post a video on how to mislead people , but I'd rather be on the other team .

-" you're not going to listen "
Sounds like we have the same problem . 101 vs. bullsh*t . TAke your white ball ( flag) and go home . My defense of the Bowline has rested . Where do I send the bill ?
 
Ward get off it , sounds like you and yo yo been on a man date . no ones attacking anyone . The video was a horrible representation of a bowline . Want me to write my Wardisms ? keep it up .
 
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"My defense of the Bowline has rested .

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Amen. A rest is a good thing when the defence gets kinda wordy, er, windy.
 
Riggs, I make an exception for you, Riggs. You bring coarseness to a high art, therefore worthy of the Little Golden Book. Me and Reg can't do it like you.

Group hug :)

Amen

"Break out the marshmallows!"
 
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Whatever.
Some of youse want to sit in judgement and launch rocks from behind the security of houses with glass walls.
Not buying what you're selling. Thanks.

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As for houses glass walls....are you calling me a coward now ?

Ive said it many times before. I'll be at TCI expo in the fall, same as every year. I'll be at the stein booth, with a name badge on 'Reg'. There will be no glass wall in place, or any other security in place for that matter. If people want to talk to me, vent, whatever. thats where I'll be.

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A hypocrite. Not a coward. Neither being a good character trait.
I'm hoping and planning to be at Hartford.
Met (and enjoyed meeting you) you at the Stein booth in Charlotte.
 
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Reg,

I think the blowback you are receiving here is due to the fact that you have piled on with Riggs in a vicious character attack to YoYo who is a good and sincere man. Even though he is not a professional arborist, he knows a lot about climbing and is dedicated to the craft. His contribution here has been completely misinterpreted with people bagging on him without even discussing the subtlety of his observations. A person of your stature (admit it, Reg, your a leader in our industry!) berating people and suggesting that they go to a novice forum, is beneath you. Calling his observations "BS" is just plain rude. There is a way to express your points without resorting to belittling others and using coarse language.

You yourself are something of a newbie to the Pacific Northwest. Just a few years ago the biggest trees you were climbing were Beech trees in Jolly Old England. Don't think for a minute that because you have a GO PRO and time to edit videos that other guys can't work circles around you. Show some humility yourself! A true leader knows that and uses language in a careful fashion. Your distinction between novices and pros is totally unhelpful and will only serve to degrade the forum further--not elevate it.

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On the contrary, Ward, my initial posts/observations were nothing like offensive or aggressive, purely based on practicality and experience....but I wont deny since becoming irritated not to even receive and acknowledgment let alone an answer from Richard, of which his silence is still deafening. That is rude IMO. Read my posts again.

In regards to me spending the last few years cutting down single stemmed second growth in the PNW, what has that got to do with anything ?

FYI, cutting down conifers over the last few years doesn't even come close to the complexity or danger I faced working predominantly hardwoods in England, New Zealand and Australia before that. Not that it matters, not that it has anything to do with tieing a bowline or owning a gopro either.

I never said Richard go to a novice forum. I said Tieing a bowline should. Its all in my posts.
 
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I never posted the chainsaw video on treebuzz, with good reason. After being mislead by my local still dealer at the time of purchase....and after suffering its performance for over 2 years, I made a short video of how I felt about it. Why would you bring that up ? I've painstakingly edited and hosted over a hundred videos here on treebuzz, and just as many quality photo sets. Developed and launched several products right here also. Never skipped or avoided a single question throughout.

What have you contributed during your time here swing ?

Why would you pick out a video that I didn't even host on treebuzz and use it in an attempt to discredit me....despite everything else that I put in over the years ?

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Reg, really? you think I am trying to discredit you....that is quite funny....that vid is plastered all over FB, it's pretty how shall I put this, ( for a guy as idolized as you in the arb world ) quite disrespectful for my lack of vocab.....luckily I don't idolize any walking human...not my style or I might go out and buy a 540XP....but I have a mind of my own and know I ain't following no one...leaders lead followers follow...You are good at what you do, but so many are...treework is treework anywhere you go, some are good at it some ain't...nothing special there....just makes me laugh....I don't know you and you don't know me..As for contributing who makes you an authority on that....you are barking up the wrong tree....I suggest you try an word bully someone else...As for treework I run my own business down here in Barbados ( Great place you brits spend loads to just get piece of the action ), it makes me a great living and allows me to raise my three kids and wife...could not care less, you hear me about gaining brownie badges on Treebuzz, can't take that chit when I die...so not buying into...you have a nice time being the big fish in a small pond...most folks living could not care less about treebuzz...funny that...I like checking stuff out but figured out early on that that's it....I found the trees later in life than you so it is what is is I am also older than you and have accomplished some great stuff outside of tree work...and I have seen a lot of the world and met lots of cool people...I need not validation here...you carry on hope things are working for you....and BTW STIHL is an awesome company, stop using your clout to slag them....here or anywhere, not that you seem to care...not wanting to get into the whole HUSKY vs STIHL....take care...really no offense just letting you know...I REALLY DON"T CARE WHAT YOU THINK.....now every buzzer knows what Paul thinks......and I am nothing special, just a 46 year old dude who cuts trees to put food on the table and get things done safely and as professionally and a fairly competent climber and rigger...similar to most here....and I can tie a BOWLINE and use it without problems whether for life support of rigging....I could go on and on but I forgot I don't contribute...REALLY....again Really?
 
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Whatever.
Some of youse want to sit in judgement and launch rocks from behind the security of houses with glass walls.
Not buying what you're selling. Thanks.

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As for houses glass walls....are you calling me a coward now ?

Ive said it many times before. I'll be at TCI expo in the fall, same as every year. I'll be at the stein booth, with a name badge on 'Reg'. There will be no glass wall in place, or any other security in place for that matter. If people want to talk to me, vent, whatever. thats where I'll be.

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A hypocrite. Not a coward. Neither being a good character trait.
I'm hoping and planning to be at Hartford.
Met (and enjoyed meeting you) you at the Stein booth in Charlotte.

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Call me a hypocrite if you want, even though I've answered your questions as best and honestly as I can. which is more than I can say for my earlier questions to Richard. What else can I say ?
 
Oh yeah and my wife is a Brit, all be it a most charming and classy one and cute ta boot....and I am a Canadian funny that...I think I am living the life....tropical paradise...ask me if I care again...cause the answer is you got it Reg.....Nooooooooooooooooooooooo...have fun in your FIRS....
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I bit my tongue earlier, now I realized I shouldn't have. I don't think Swing was trying to discredit Reg, and I was going to say so. Reg, he wasn't the one that posted the link to the vid. Whatever, cat's out of the bag, who really cares, I think it was funny.

Paul's a good dude. He doesn't need me to defend him, but it certainly seems like you guys are misunderstanding each other just a bit if not more.

Tom
 
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