I knew I saw it somewhere...I'm not saying I would not back up my r-bowline, just wondering if anybody does climb without doing it?
Bowline Cinch for SRT
- Thread starter GibsonTreeCare
- Start date
boreality
New member
- Location
- boreal forest
Back it up, got it. Good reminder thanks.
for me too 
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
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http://www.treeclimbercoalition.org/TreeTalk/article.cfm?articleid=174
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Good catch Cary, I missed that one. Not surprised though, Jungle Joe has always argued against using a Running Bowline for an SRT cinch, I'm guessing he rarely uses one or he would've included the Yosemite finish. He did put an F8 stopper on it but I have no confidence in an F8 in that application, it tends to undo itself if it contacts or snags something while it's being pulled up.
Seems like most of the rec climbers I know use a delta screwlink for a running SRT cinch.
Backed Running Bowline cinch is sweet, simple and secure.
-AJ
http://www.treeclimbercoalition.org/TreeTalk/article.cfm?articleid=174
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Good catch Cary, I missed that one. Not surprised though, Jungle Joe has always argued against using a Running Bowline for an SRT cinch, I'm guessing he rarely uses one or he would've included the Yosemite finish. He did put an F8 stopper on it but I have no confidence in an F8 in that application, it tends to undo itself if it contacts or snags something while it's being pulled up.
Seems like most of the rec climbers I know use a delta screwlink for a running SRT cinch.
Backed Running Bowline cinch is sweet, simple and secure.
-AJ
I agree, have you used the delta? seems easy to clip into for retrieving.
I want to use the rigging plate/ring to ring that Kevin posted, I have tried it in my yard, but not at work.
it is the only one that can be retrieved even after multiple redirects.
I want to use the rigging plate/ring to ring that Kevin posted, I have tried it in my yard, but not at work.
it is the only one that can be retrieved even after multiple redirects.
Norm_Hall
New member
- Location
- Wauconda, (Chicago),IL,USA
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I add a Yosemite and then double overhand the tail around the rope above the bowline,
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That's exactly what I do.
A stationary bowline will absolutely work it's way loose when loaded and unloaded while climbing.
TCOT's had a climber fall 30' when a stationary bowline worked it's way loose while ascending on it. He now has titanium screws in his arm.
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I add a Yosemite and then double overhand the tail around the rope above the bowline,
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That's exactly what I do.
A stationary bowline will absolutely work it's way loose when loaded and unloaded while climbing.
TCOT's had a climber fall 30' when a stationary bowline worked it's way loose while ascending on it. He now has titanium screws in his arm.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
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I agree, have you used the delta? seems easy to clip into for retrieving.
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Since I'm usually hiking to trees with gear on my back I don't want the extra weight of a delta screwlink. I attach a pulldown above the bowline, makes it easier to release the cinch on a large limb or grippy bark.
Cary, you've probably seen this drawing before, I always have an accessory cord prusik loop like this on my harness, use a Kong mini-accessory biner now instead of the little oval link. It's much easier to release the cinch if you grab the rope higher on the limb (as Norm mentioned, double overhand to finish the Yosemite).
-AJ
I agree, have you used the delta? seems easy to clip into for retrieving.
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Since I'm usually hiking to trees with gear on my back I don't want the extra weight of a delta screwlink. I attach a pulldown above the bowline, makes it easier to release the cinch on a large limb or grippy bark.
Cary, you've probably seen this drawing before, I always have an accessory cord prusik loop like this on my harness, use a Kong mini-accessory biner now instead of the little oval link. It's much easier to release the cinch if you grab the rope higher on the limb (as Norm mentioned, double overhand to finish the Yosemite).
-AJ
- Location
- Oakland, CA
I have been experimenting with cinching above me with the Bowline on a Bight, clipped in with a biner with a pull-down throwline if you need.
anyone else been working this? I haven't used it much in the field, mostly backyard. I seem to like it, wonder about forces on the biner.
the BOAB even makes a decent throwing knot when advancing above the climber.
Singlejack brought it up in the "choking carabiner" thread
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=247190&page=0&fpart=2&vc=1
scroll down to his post about 2/3 of the way down, nice images
anyone else been working this? I haven't used it much in the field, mostly backyard. I seem to like it, wonder about forces on the biner.
the BOAB even makes a decent throwing knot when advancing above the climber.
Singlejack brought it up in the "choking carabiner" thread
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=247190&page=0&fpart=2&vc=1
scroll down to his post about 2/3 of the way down, nice images
- Location
- mon co, nj
I know absolutely nothing about SRT, except that I would like to experiment with it. Would anyone consider using a high rated steel locking biner with a spliced end. Pro's(if any) and con's of this method?
- Location
- mon co, nj
And oh yeah how bout a cambium saver?
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
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I know absolutely nothing about SRT, except that I would like to experiment with it. Would anyone consider using a high rated steel locking biner with a spliced end. Pro's(if any) and con's of this method?
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That would, just want to be sure the carabiner doesn't rotate out of position and cross load. Beauty of a delta screwlink is you can't cross load it. Can't cross load a Running Bowline either and no hardware required ;-)
-AJ
I know absolutely nothing about SRT, except that I would like to experiment with it. Would anyone consider using a high rated steel locking biner with a spliced end. Pro's(if any) and con's of this method?
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That would, just want to be sure the carabiner doesn't rotate out of position and cross load. Beauty of a delta screwlink is you can't cross load it. Can't cross load a Running Bowline either and no hardware required ;-)
-AJ
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
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And oh yeah how bout a cambium saver?
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No rope movement across the limb when the climber is on rope, at least on a cinched anchor. If the rope is over high/young branches on a ground anchored system there can be chafing damage especially on conifers and other softwoods. Minimal though compared to rope on bark climbing DdRT without a cambium saver.
-AJ
And oh yeah how bout a cambium saver?
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No rope movement across the limb when the climber is on rope, at least on a cinched anchor. If the rope is over high/young branches on a ground anchored system there can be chafing damage especially on conifers and other softwoods. Minimal though compared to rope on bark climbing DdRT without a cambium saver.
-AJ
flyingsquirrel25
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- South East, PA
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I have been experimenting with cinching above me with the Bowline on a Bight, clipped in with a biner with a pull-down throwline if you need.
anyone else been working this? I haven't used it much in the field, mostly backyard. I seem to like it, wonder about forces on the biner.
the BOAB even makes a decent throwing knot when advancing above the climber.
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I played with teh BOAB a bit as well. I didnt like the biner up in the top unsupervised. The next logical thing we tried was a double running bowline (mid line to allow pull down). Worked well staying put, but got jammed up in the crotch on me once, and no longer use it because of that. The delta link sounds like a good solution, but it does not meet the standards for work climbing. This week we were installing xmas lights on the trunks of trees and were using the monkey tail set up quite a lot and it seemed to be working well. I think I might play with that a bit more in the coming weeks.
I have been experimenting with cinching above me with the Bowline on a Bight, clipped in with a biner with a pull-down throwline if you need.
anyone else been working this? I haven't used it much in the field, mostly backyard. I seem to like it, wonder about forces on the biner.
the BOAB even makes a decent throwing knot when advancing above the climber.
[/ QUOTE ]
I played with teh BOAB a bit as well. I didnt like the biner up in the top unsupervised. The next logical thing we tried was a double running bowline (mid line to allow pull down). Worked well staying put, but got jammed up in the crotch on me once, and no longer use it because of that. The delta link sounds like a good solution, but it does not meet the standards for work climbing. This week we were installing xmas lights on the trunks of trees and were using the monkey tail set up quite a lot and it seemed to be working well. I think I might play with that a bit more in the coming weeks.
JTree
Participating member
- Location
- East Texas
For top cinched: I use a RB with a Y....though after reading this, I think I'll start double overhanding around the line. Redundant safety is always a good idea.
Bottom tied: 80% of the time I run it through an 8 that has been cow hitched to the tree then hard locked....then locked again with a biner through the figure 8 on a bight and around the line. Why not take the extra time to save time during a potential rescue with myself as the victim? As much as I love my groundies....well I'm not an everyday climber, they certainly aren't. Not trying to highjack the thread, but am I the only one that does this semi regularly? If you are wondering about the other 20% of the time....it's because my rope wouldn't be long enough to lower me. In which case I use a half hitch, then the RB with a Y.
Bottom tied: 80% of the time I run it through an 8 that has been cow hitched to the tree then hard locked....then locked again with a biner through the figure 8 on a bight and around the line. Why not take the extra time to save time during a potential rescue with myself as the victim? As much as I love my groundies....well I'm not an everyday climber, they certainly aren't. Not trying to highjack the thread, but am I the only one that does this semi regularly? If you are wondering about the other 20% of the time....it's because my rope wouldn't be long enough to lower me. In which case I use a half hitch, then the RB with a Y.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
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...The delta link sounds like a good solution, but it does not meet the standards for work climbing.
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9,920 lbs avg. breaking point, double threaded nut, can be be loaded any direction...
10mm Maillion Rapide delta screwlink
Are you saying this because it's not an autolocker? I think in a cinch application it's significantly safer than any carabiner or combination of carabiners.
-AJ
...The delta link sounds like a good solution, but it does not meet the standards for work climbing.
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9,920 lbs avg. breaking point, double threaded nut, can be be loaded any direction...
10mm Maillion Rapide delta screwlink
Are you saying this because it's not an autolocker? I think in a cinch application it's significantly safer than any carabiner or combination of carabiners.
-AJ
- Location
- Manchester
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I'm responding with out reading everyone elses posts but i feel its very important so its worth mentioning again if someone already did.
The Bowline should always be backed up when used for life support. The difference between rigging and climbing is that in rigging the rope doesn't cycle continuously between tight and slack. This is the action that loosens a bowline, and very easily i might add.
If your using the end of your line a yosemites tie off is very easy. If its midline, a biner capturing the bight and standing end will do as well.
Always back it up!!! No exceptions. You don't want to take the risk. It only takes one accident.
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I quite agree. I took a fall once as a bowline came undone. I won't do that again. Fell twenty feet onto some soft grass. Any obstacles and I would have been a goner.
Always back up any knot for lifeline!
Treestyle Arboriculture, Manchester
I'm responding with out reading everyone elses posts but i feel its very important so its worth mentioning again if someone already did.
The Bowline should always be backed up when used for life support. The difference between rigging and climbing is that in rigging the rope doesn't cycle continuously between tight and slack. This is the action that loosens a bowline, and very easily i might add.
If your using the end of your line a yosemites tie off is very easy. If its midline, a biner capturing the bight and standing end will do as well.
Always back it up!!! No exceptions. You don't want to take the risk. It only takes one accident.
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I quite agree. I took a fall once as a bowline came undone. I won't do that again. Fell twenty feet onto some soft grass. Any obstacles and I would have been a goner.
Always back up any knot for lifeline!
Treestyle Arboriculture, Manchester
- Location
- Manchester
Also. Beware of clipping the the tuck instesd of the bight on a Yosemite. It will pop off undr load if you get it wrong. That has happened to a student climber I know. He was badly injured.
www.treestylearb.com
www.treestylearb.com
Double bowline mid line works will. For added security clip biner thru loop to climbing side. Far as knot stuck in crotch. Can cinch limb anywhere with running bowline. Stay safely away from problem areas. Two ropes a huge help in wide spread canopy.
