- Location
- Southern Vermont
Re: Blake\'s hitch
Does this method of testing knots seem incredibly stupid to any one else???
Does this method of testing knots seem incredibly stupid to any one else???
Blake's hitch
- Thread starter niceviews
- Start date
- Location
- Asheville, NC
Re: Blake\'s hitch
That's a whole other can of worms, but it definitely does to me. The proctor told me that he wouldn't even know if I tied any prussik hitch correctly. I just dont get it.
That's a whole other can of worms, but it definitely does to me. The proctor told me that he wouldn't even know if I tied any prussik hitch correctly. I just dont get it.
- Location
- Bay Area CA.
Re: Blake\'s hitch *DELETED*
Post deleted by Knotahippie
Post deleted by Knotahippie
- Location
- Sumner Washington
Re: Blake\'s hitch
Look right to me.If you compeat in a ISA climbing comp. You can send in the waver sheat and just take the wrighten test. Thats what I'm doing I compeated last spring and I'm going for the wrighten soon.
Look right to me.If you compeat in a ISA climbing comp. You can send in the waver sheat and just take the wrighten test. Thats what I'm doing I compeated last spring and I'm going for the wrighten soon.
- Location
- BC, Canada
Re: Blake\'s hitch
niceviews,
Geez, when I did my test, I told the proctor that I had not climbed on a Blake's for ages, could tie one if he wanted but that I'd like to do my "Hang Test" and "Climb Test" on a VT Prussic.
He said, "That's cool, just show that it can hold you."
So I tie in for the "Hang Test", go up a bit, go down a bit proctor says, "Ok good. That's a pass." Then I did my full climb on the VT no problems, no objections.
Blake's hitch was never used, never involved.
Sorry you got such an incorrect judging, from your photos your lefties Blake's looks fine. You should protest this result so that when you retest you should not have to pay a fee.
I think you ran into a proctor who knows less than you do.
Too bad.
Northwind
niceviews,
Geez, when I did my test, I told the proctor that I had not climbed on a Blake's for ages, could tie one if he wanted but that I'd like to do my "Hang Test" and "Climb Test" on a VT Prussic.
He said, "That's cool, just show that it can hold you."
So I tie in for the "Hang Test", go up a bit, go down a bit proctor says, "Ok good. That's a pass." Then I did my full climb on the VT no problems, no objections.
Blake's hitch was never used, never involved.
Sorry you got such an incorrect judging, from your photos your lefties Blake's looks fine. You should protest this result so that when you retest you should not have to pay a fee.
I think you ran into a proctor who knows less than you do.
Too bad.
Northwind
knudeNoggin
New member
Re: Blake\'s hitch
Is it forbidden that a proctor tell a candidate what they did wrong?
FYI, when Heinz Prohaska presented this hitch in Nylon Highway in 1990,
he drew it as the mirror image of the lower knot--mirror vertical,
to the right of the knot, i.e..
Perhaps there might be some advantage to orienting the knot one way
or another, for ease of manipulating it--for working it looser,
or whathaveyou. But w/o any basis for discrimination between such
orientations explained, I think your proctor is just wrong and showing
little understanding of the knot himself!
And HE should be taken to task for this by the governing body.
*knudeNoggin*
ps: I'd like to see someone's idea of the failing "suislide" version.
I thought I had it figured, but when I tried it, in some sort of
cordage, it seemed to hold rather than slide. (YMMV?)
Is it forbidden that a proctor tell a candidate what they did wrong?
FYI, when Heinz Prohaska presented this hitch in Nylon Highway in 1990,
he drew it as the mirror image of the lower knot--mirror vertical,
to the right of the knot, i.e..
Perhaps there might be some advantage to orienting the knot one way
or another, for ease of manipulating it--for working it looser,
or whathaveyou. But w/o any basis for discrimination between such
orientations explained, I think your proctor is just wrong and showing
little understanding of the knot himself!
And HE should be taken to task for this by the governing body.
*knudeNoggin*
ps: I'd like to see someone's idea of the failing "suislide" version.
I thought I had it figured, but when I tried it, in some sort of
cordage, it seemed to hold rather than slide. (YMMV?)
- Location
- Bay Area CA.
Re: Blake\'s hitch
Did you back up the blake's with a figure 8 stopper knot?
Did you back up the blake's with a figure 8 stopper knot?
TheTreeSpyder
Branched out member
- Location
- Florida>>> USA
- Location
- Asheville, NC
Re: Blake\'s hitch
Northwind,
I told the proctor the same thing as you did, and he said he wouldnt even know if I was tying my prussik knot correctly, and come to find out he doesnt even climb on a knot, he uses a lockjack.
I did finally get in touch with ISA about it, and it is his word against mine. He said that he knows what a left-handed knot looks like and I didnt tie it. I do know that if I tie my blakes hitch blindfolded, I get a left handed knot. I guess I could have been completely wrong, but I really dont think so. Oh well, Ill just have to re-take it and this time I think Ill be sure I know how to tie it in the book.
I do wish you could do the entire test on a prussik though. Northwind, would you let me know when and where you took your test so I can let ISA know that some proctors do allow the use of a prussik knot on the entire test.
Northwind,
I told the proctor the same thing as you did, and he said he wouldnt even know if I was tying my prussik knot correctly, and come to find out he doesnt even climb on a knot, he uses a lockjack.
I did finally get in touch with ISA about it, and it is his word against mine. He said that he knows what a left-handed knot looks like and I didnt tie it. I do know that if I tie my blakes hitch blindfolded, I get a left handed knot. I guess I could have been completely wrong, but I really dont think so. Oh well, Ill just have to re-take it and this time I think Ill be sure I know how to tie it in the book.
I do wish you could do the entire test on a prussik though. Northwind, would you let me know when and where you took your test so I can let ISA know that some proctors do allow the use of a prussik knot on the entire test.
knudeNoggin
New member
Re: Blake\'s hitch
[ QUOTE ]
I did finally get in touch with ISA about it, and it is his word against mine. He said that he knows what a left-handed knot looks like and I didnt tie it.
...
Oh well, Ill just have to re-take it and this time I think Ill be sure I know how to tie it in the book.
... would you let me know when and where you took your test so I can let ISA know that some proctors do allow the use of a prussik knot on the entire test.
[/ QUOTE ]
BULLSHIPS: I think that SEVERAL of us here (if I may be so bold in suggesting)
would be eager to write to whomever (ISA) regarding this case in order to set
the record straight. Your particular proctor is going [bad word](arse) over reason
in this, in now saying that you didn't (even) tie an equal reflection
of it! Surely some of the folks here have some bit of credentials
to present; I can easily provide some orig. documentation (that NyHy intro)
and argumentation.
Heck, some few connected folks might send a multi-signed letter
(A writes & signs; mails to B who signs & mails to C who signs,
and then mails to ISA PoC.)
This sort of nonsense SHOULD NOT STAND--it has seen daylight and been
revealed; now, to rid ourselves of it. ("In that you have done so to
the least of my brethren, you have done unto me.")
And how can it only be--for the ISA dispute arbiter--**only** his
word against yours? --you can show WHAT YOU DO, and THAT is what
should be judged (since, at this point, there is no controversy over
what you did, only whether that is kosher/halal/copacetic)!
I.e., it's not about words here, but knots; ISA I should hope
can judge them when pressed?
*kN*
Epilogue:
There once was a proctor who was an [bad word]
--like the body part that produces a turd--
said he, sans insight,
"your hitch isn't right",
so I stomped off, and flipped him the bird!!!
--Anon., II
[ QUOTE ]
I did finally get in touch with ISA about it, and it is his word against mine. He said that he knows what a left-handed knot looks like and I didnt tie it.
...
Oh well, Ill just have to re-take it and this time I think Ill be sure I know how to tie it in the book.
... would you let me know when and where you took your test so I can let ISA know that some proctors do allow the use of a prussik knot on the entire test.
[/ QUOTE ]
BULLSHIPS: I think that SEVERAL of us here (if I may be so bold in suggesting)
would be eager to write to whomever (ISA) regarding this case in order to set
the record straight. Your particular proctor is going [bad word](arse) over reason
in this, in now saying that you didn't (even) tie an equal reflection
of it! Surely some of the folks here have some bit of credentials
to present; I can easily provide some orig. documentation (that NyHy intro)
and argumentation.
Heck, some few connected folks might send a multi-signed letter
(A writes & signs; mails to B who signs & mails to C who signs,
and then mails to ISA PoC.)
This sort of nonsense SHOULD NOT STAND--it has seen daylight and been
revealed; now, to rid ourselves of it. ("In that you have done so to
the least of my brethren, you have done unto me.")
And how can it only be--for the ISA dispute arbiter--**only** his
word against yours? --you can show WHAT YOU DO, and THAT is what
should be judged (since, at this point, there is no controversy over
what you did, only whether that is kosher/halal/copacetic)!
I.e., it's not about words here, but knots; ISA I should hope
can judge them when pressed?
*kN*
Epilogue:
There once was a proctor who was an [bad word]
--like the body part that produces a turd--
said he, sans insight,
"your hitch isn't right",
so I stomped off, and flipped him the bird!!!
--Anon., II
knudeNoggin
New member
Re: Blake\'s hitch
Well, I suppose the dispute does depend on your veracity
here: is what you have presented in clear photographic image
what in fact you tied on-site for the proctor (which he then
rejected, et cetera). Maybe you can send the image to him
with a challenge/question, just to see if you can get him
to reject THAT PHOTO. THEN we have incontrovertible grounds
for redress. (And maybe you could pose your presentation of
your version to the proctor as a question as to what HE thinks
the "left-handed" knot should look like.)
*kN*
Well, I suppose the dispute does depend on your veracity
here: is what you have presented in clear photographic image
what in fact you tied on-site for the proctor (which he then
rejected, et cetera). Maybe you can send the image to him
with a challenge/question, just to see if you can get him
to reject THAT PHOTO. THEN we have incontrovertible grounds
for redress. (And maybe you could pose your presentation of
your version to the proctor as a question as to what HE thinks
the "left-handed" knot should look like.)
*kN*
TheTreeSpyder
Branched out member
- Location
- Florida>>> USA
Re: Blake\'s hitch
How about 4 of each L-R forward / backward as T. describes (total of eight) and same fer Tautline (dozen). And let the experts / proctor sort'em out in a couple of minutes(without touching, seeing only 1 side?). How are the qualifiers qualifieded? The mechanical design of the 'slide lends towards walking the low-Zer0 tension bitter tail out by the most powerful tensioned pull of the standing. Conversely the Blake's uses the same force to properly lock the bitter end.
In small diameters, dressed right, playing around as an easy arm chair quarterback on a Tuesday afterbnoon sippin'tea with soft pulls; you can get some fair tack from the 'slide. But, if a real working man was climbing on it any length of time with dynamic shifts and impacts (let alone everyday).... well still being h'ear kinda proves his case IMLHO!
How about 4 of each L-R forward / backward as T. describes (total of eight) and same fer Tautline (dozen). And let the experts / proctor sort'em out in a couple of minutes(without touching, seeing only 1 side?). How are the qualifiers qualifieded? The mechanical design of the 'slide lends towards walking the low-Zer0 tension bitter tail out by the most powerful tensioned pull of the standing. Conversely the Blake's uses the same force to properly lock the bitter end.
In small diameters, dressed right, playing around as an easy arm chair quarterback on a Tuesday afterbnoon sippin'tea with soft pulls; you can get some fair tack from the 'slide. But, if a real working man was climbing on it any length of time with dynamic shifts and impacts (let alone everyday).... well still being h'ear kinda proves his case IMLHO!
- Location
- BC, Canada
Re: Blake\'s hitch
niceviews,
The key for MY proctor was that whatever I tied for the "Hang Test" I had to demonstrate that it held my weight, could shift up a step, hold, and shift down a step, hold.
It sounds to me like you never got to that point. In fact, I thought that was the whole point of the "Hang Test": To PROVE the efficacy of your hitch 2 or 3 feet off the ground before you go up for the "Actual Climbing Test."
If you never got to "Hang" and prove your hitch 2 feet up, you did not get a fair shake.
Northwind
niceviews,
The key for MY proctor was that whatever I tied for the "Hang Test" I had to demonstrate that it held my weight, could shift up a step, hold, and shift down a step, hold.
It sounds to me like you never got to that point. In fact, I thought that was the whole point of the "Hang Test": To PROVE the efficacy of your hitch 2 or 3 feet off the ground before you go up for the "Actual Climbing Test."
If you never got to "Hang" and prove your hitch 2 feet up, you did not get a fair shake.
Northwind
- Location
- Bay Area CA.
- Location
- Southern Vermont
Re: Blake\'s hitch
I found this contoversy so inspirational that while readying myself on the ground to climb a large specimen Sugar Maple to trim without ground help the other day ... I dug out my old split tail with my old safety for a double safety...with a 12 footer and Gibbs on my left dee , and the 10 footer with spliced eye girthed to the right dee attached beautifully with a Blakes it will stay on my saddle...I might not have thought of it , if not for Hippie's woes ...
I found this contoversy so inspirational that while readying myself on the ground to climb a large specimen Sugar Maple to trim without ground help the other day ... I dug out my old split tail with my old safety for a double safety...with a 12 footer and Gibbs on my left dee , and the 10 footer with spliced eye girthed to the right dee attached beautifully with a Blakes it will stay on my saddle...I might not have thought of it , if not for Hippie's woes ...
- Location
- Bay Area CA.
Re: Blake\'s hitch
I tried both knots today...
Seems like the knot in question (niceviws 1st post) doesn't bite as hard as if tail goes behind wraps.
I tried both knots today...
Seems like the knot in question (niceviws 1st post) doesn't bite as hard as if tail goes behind wraps.
- Location
- Bay Area CA.
Re: Blake\'s hitch
[ QUOTE ]
I tried both knots today...
Seems like the knot in question (niceviws 1st post) doesn't bite as hard as if tail goes behind wraps.
[/ QUOTE ]
Correction:
Sorry, I got it backwards. the one I tied is the Suislide, not to be confused with the Blake's which Niceviews tied...
[ QUOTE ]
I tried both knots today...
Seems like the knot in question (niceviws 1st post) doesn't bite as hard as if tail goes behind wraps.
[/ QUOTE ]
Correction:
Sorry, I got it backwards. the one I tied is the Suislide, not to be confused with the Blake's which Niceviews tied...
- Location
- rhode island
Re: Blake\'s hitch
[ QUOTE ]
I found this contoversy so inspirational that while readying myself on the ground to climb a large specimen Sugar Maple to trim without ground help the other day ... I dug out my old split tail with my old safety for a double safety...with a 12 footer and Gibbs on my left dee , and the 10 footer with spliced eye girthed to the right dee attached beautifully with a Blakes it will stay on my saddle...I might not have thought of it , if not for Hippie's woes ...
[/ QUOTE ]
This post makes it seem like you spiked it.
[ QUOTE ]
I found this contoversy so inspirational that while readying myself on the ground to climb a large specimen Sugar Maple to trim without ground help the other day ... I dug out my old split tail with my old safety for a double safety...with a 12 footer and Gibbs on my left dee , and the 10 footer with spliced eye girthed to the right dee attached beautifully with a Blakes it will stay on my saddle...I might not have thought of it , if not for Hippie's woes ...
[/ QUOTE ]
This post makes it seem like you spiked it.
Re: Blake\'s hitch
as long as you capture the bridge either way should work
as long as you capture the bridge either way should work
- Location
- Bay Area CA.
Re: Blake\'s hitch
[ QUOTE ]
as long as you capture the bridge either way should work
[/ QUOTE ]
Looks like the suislide pulls the tail end right out of the knot, deforms it pretty bad. Won't bite as hard on the rope, tends to slip more.
Seems like if you didn't have a stopper knot on the suislide things could go bad quick.
[ QUOTE ]
as long as you capture the bridge either way should work
[/ QUOTE ]
Looks like the suislide pulls the tail end right out of the knot, deforms it pretty bad. Won't bite as hard on the rope, tends to slip more.
Seems like if you didn't have a stopper knot on the suislide things could go bad quick.
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