Backups in SRT

You guys are totally right about hitches and working on SRT.

I've practiced escapes from a spar using my hitch on a choked off rope which is basically SRT descent... it sucked, made me question the efficacy of choking my rope on a spar. The solution was to add a figure 8 but what I'm saying is, I agree that a hitch is no good for WORKING a tree with SRT. But that's different from ascent/access.

That IS what we're talking about at the moment, access? At least I think that's what we're talking about... 3 attachment points. I can't imagine trying to move around a canopy efficiently with 3 points on the same rope.


All I'm saying is, if you want a good rope grab at the central position (for me it would be harness rather than chest) for ASCENDING, a hitch will do the job as well as anything, better than most. No need to invent a new mech or carry extra gear.
 
Well, I've been talking about ascent, but from the perspective of an all hitch configuration. I see now that you're just talking about the middle hitch - that just might work.

I see another difference too, generally if I'm not on a RADS setup, I climb SRT in a Texas configuration where I have a tether from the upper ascender to the saddle and another ascender for the footloops, about even with the saddle TIP and it has a tether from the top of the ascender to the saddle. It's pretty efficient in that you never have to take your hand off either ascender unless you want to.

It'd be pretty difficult to operate hitches in that configuration - that explains some of the differences we see.

It's a sit-stand so not as efficient as a walker, but I have a buddy that caves and he does a 300' sit-stands but uses a frog setup.

The problem with a Texas, Frog, and most walkers, they essentially have no escape capabilities to speak of, the UniCender being the exception, and of course the RADS has a quick escape too.
 
Yes SRT access. Maybe I need to learn how to tie yet another hitch.
laugh.gif


Blinky with a hitch in the central position, could you ascend the rope by foot locking the tail smoothly say 30 feet and still dependably preform the whistle test with out touching the hitch?

Dave
 
And now you're well beyond my experience. I've jugged lots of rope rock climber style with etriers, daisy chains and two prussics or Jumars. I've seen RADS demonstrated and tried the frog thing for a while but I've not actually used them enough to say one way or the other.

I didn't realize you use your hand on the center attachment but it makes sense now that I think about it. I keep forgetting that I'm a bullheaded footlocker and really don't know squat about other styles of rope ascent. I was thinking the center self-tended and the top and bottom points were advanced by hand. So, just ignore that part.

One thing is, I like rope and knots and carabiners as much as climbing and so I favor hitches when I can use them. I think they are a truly elegant solution to a difficult problem and to me they have a natural feel to them that mechs don't.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Blinky with a hitch in the central position, could you ascend the rope by foot locking the tail smoothly say 30 feet and still dependably preform the whistle test with out touching the hitch?

Dave

[/ QUOTE ]

From my personal work on srt using a hitch at your waist it works 99.9% of the time with no problem going 30ft, for that matter up to around 80ft. I have tried using a hitch on a water tower climb once in Virginia. The climb was around 120ft to the landing, around 90ft I noticed the hitch loosening to the point it was not making much contact with the line. I still trust that it would have caught me during a fall but not as soon. I am sure that if I had taken a breather on the way up and put some weight on the hitch that it would have never happen.

Side note: the tower guys thought I was out of my mind for having a hitch in my system, but later thought it was a good idea. Doubt I would get them to say that again.
 
[ QUOTE ]
In my systems the chest/middle attachment is 100% self tending. An elastic tender of some sort keeps it 'up' without me touching it.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's the premise I was working on as well, I just assumed we were talking about the middle 'ascender' working in a transparent mode, i.e. hand's off advance and catch.
 
[ QUOTE ]

I didn't realize you use your hand on the center attachment but it makes sense now that I think about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK now I am a bit confused. I thought my question specified not tending the the center hitch.

Dave
 
[ QUOTE ]
Blinky with a hitch in the central position, could you ascend the rope by foot locking the tail smoothly say 30 feet and still dependably preform the whistle test with out touching the hitch? Dave

[/ QUOTE ]

When I typed, it seemed like such a simple question.

Dave
 
This might be starting a whole new topic but I will ask anyway. With my SRT setup I have my hand ascender attached to my hitch by a 8mm cord that after running to my hitch goes to a large eight on a bite for a foot loop. My hitch is a VT on a hitch climber pulley. This way when I push up with the hand ascender the hitch will advance and my foot will come up with it allowing me to stand on the loop and advance my Patin on the other foot. This set up allows me to not have to touch the hitch until I reach my final hieght ( and thats only because I have a long bridge on my harness). Now this is what I assume is what is ment when people discribe not having to advance thier hitch on a SRT climb. Am I on the same page or not understanding what is confusing climbers?
 
I srt with a VT at my harness.

I find it works great, only slightly less efficient than a croll because I have kind of do a little double step with my pantin leg to shake the rope through the hitch. once I get high enough, the rope just falls through. I have jumped off the rope at various points in my climb even with seemingly loose hitches and never had the hitch not grab except for maybe 6 inches of fall. I really cant see my VT not grabbing.

If I were to need to do a quick descent because of bees I can footlock down the rope with a hitch. something that is not possible with an acender. For working the tree you just need a fate tender device. I now am using the Kong robot (thanks again FT).

A hitch works great for the upper acender as well. the hitch climber pulley underneath the hitch doubles as a nice handhold. Since I am not actually jugging on the acender and my legs are doing all the work, this works fine. The only acender that is not replaced nicely by a hitch is the pantin. I have tried but it was ridiculous. the biggest downfall of using a hitch for the upper acender is that it does not pop on and off real easy like an acender does. I now use the acenttree
 
Ok, we seem to be back on track here. What I was trying to elicit is the need for a more efficient setup. The hitches do work in the middle position and cover the safety aspect in regards to not coming detached from the rope.

From my experimentation, this is still a very sensitive and touchy combination as far as grabability vs smooth feed. The big problem being that a hitch needs to be pushed up from the bottom, it will collapse back into itself.

If you use the ascender to advance it, like Fairfield, the ascender becomes an integral component of the system, no longer just a hitch.

The Unicender works in the middle ascender position being attached to a HUT, it self-advances and the rope feeds through cleanly and is secure on the rope. This is all a very good feeling.

What I don't like is the Unicender is not specifically designed for this position. It could be much more stream-lined. This would allow upper and lower ascenders to be mere rope grabs with no saddle attachments. It would facilitate a free climb on a congested tree with a constant slack-tending belay.

This is not a criticism of the Unicender because it is designed for far more versatility than what I described. It does show how very little it would take to make a really cool tool to fit in this position.

If your tip breaks, or any fall occurs, the multiple cams, such as with the Unicender, will not damage the rope.

Add the fact that even with a more stream-lined design, you could still descend on it. It would be a pretty awesome tool for that position.

Dave
 
[ QUOTE ]
Blinky with a hitch in the central position, could you ascend the rope by foot locking the tail smoothly say 30 feet and still dependably preform the whistle test with out touching the hitch?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it will grab eveytime, only one I'd say to be leary of is the VT tied it's normal way. The VT with 2 x's at the bottom is a better knot if used for this.

This is my main way to ascend into a tree. Though I use my own personal knot the HRK at bridge, also attached to bridge is a line to the ascender. Then I just footlock the rope up. Right now I'm onto the Futura I like this little guy a ton. Slim sleek can be latched to belt with no worries of getting hung up on anything (it's the size of a biner). Major draw back to this guy is a simple fact, no top hole. You have to know to snap the line in with the bottom biner. Other than that this guy is great for tree climbers.
876.00.jpg
 
I was just looking at that thing on the Kong website after i got sent the robot. I thought that thing looked super sweet. Im gonna get one when I order the hydrobot.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Yes SRT access. Maybe I need to learn how to tie yet another hitch.
laugh.gif


Blinky with a hitch in the central position, could you ascend the rope by foot locking the tail smoothly say 30 feet and still dependably preform the whistle test with out touching the hitch?

Dave

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry Dave, we must have cross posted and I missed this. With a VT my answer is 'probably', with a Distel it's a definite yes.

I'm going to test this tomorrow with a belay because I've been wondering about it, that is, will a loosely compressed VT actually catch if you fall suddenly. I think it will though it may slip a foot or two first. Distels catch every time for me so far, I don't even have to look at'em. I check my VT before I weight it following an ascent though.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think it will though it may slip a foot or two first.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hope your belay person is a good one. I know a guy that like to rip hi nose off, burn the hell out of both hands, and a real nice burn on his neck. This was him training for his footlock using a vt. Some horses you just take to the water, other you need to persuade with a 2 by 4.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom