Ash drop

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Less to get through young grasshopper! IGODEEP!

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Yes maybe on the back cut but still had to cut further in the front. Either way you are cutting the same distance.
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Having a hinge that is 80% the diameter of the tree is a rule of thumb as well as a standard to base off of. He was simply stating an observation, don't rip his head off.
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Your face cuts look a little too deep.

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Too deep for what???


Kinda funny cause my first thought was "nice deep face cuts... this guy knows what he's doing"

The 1/3 ... 80% rule is for rookies.. Everyone spouts it but no one knows why.. If you are going to criticize or "critique" a cut, you should know the why.. its amazing how that teaching has become gospel truth in the industry while so few people really understand the why of it..

there are a lot of good reasons to make deeper or shallower face cuts.. Apparently Ricky understands that..

Here's another video from someone else that understands it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfLwcUDCN...iOVlAFWW9BEOqxC

I'd like hear you tell Graeme McMahon that his face cuts are "too deep"...
 
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The 1/3 ... 80% rule is for rookies.. Everyone spouts it but no one knows why.. If you are going to criticize or "critique" a cut, you should know the why.. its amazing how that teaching has become gospel truth in the industry while so few people really understand the why of it..

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Are you serious?
I agree with you that you don't have to take the 80% rule as gospel all the time. Just like we don't make a 70-90 degree notch all the time. They're guidelines. But saying no one knows why is pretty ignorant on your part. It's ok to say you don't know.
We're supposed to be trained professional and understand the methods and techniques we use. 80% of the diameter isn't just a number someone thought sounded good and just ran with it.
The reason to my understanding for making your hinge 80% the diameter of the tree is to maximize the use of the sapwood, thus relying more on the live outer wood to bend and control the notch as the log falls opposed to relying on the more brittle heartwood.
Having said that not all trees are perfect circles so the 80% rule wouldn't apply. This is where experience comes into play and you'd have to make your own executive decision.
 
In the video you can see how much hinge wood broke. The rope was pretensioned with the grcs and someone pulling the rope out the self tailer which you get alot of pull force. I don't really see an issue with my notch or the way I did this job. All went exactly as planned, as usual. One thing to see a video and it's another to be there in person. One thing I do know is when a tree is coming over you want it over fast not slow going cuz that's when a large side weight will break the hinge and the tree will go where it wants to.. with the weigh.
 
That vid looked pretty good to me, had some decay but there was some good holding wood. Down here we don't have major decay problems which is nice, our trees are very hardy and tend to be resilient I guess from a year round growing season. I know it been said before but Graeme McMahon has the best videos of tree work on you tube hands down, I never get tired of watching him in action, smooth and controlled are words to describe his rigging and chainsaw use. Truly an inspiration. Seems to be a very humble chappie, one who is always ready to teach and share his knowledge.
 
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What caused the large cracks in the trunk you can see beginning at 2:44 in the video?

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I saw that too. I'd like to know how they got there as well.
I agree with the notch being too deep. It also appears as if there was alot of tension with the GRCS and 5 to 1 combo.
A word of caution: once the tree starts to go over, escape, escape, escape. I saw in the vid the cutter kept on cutting when the tree started to fall.
An open face notch would have been a better choice, too.
Watchers can't hear anything when music is added. I think hearing the entire vid with the natural sound is nice.
Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps0BTixfQgg&context=C34ea74eADOEgsToPDskKdymsebim4DhJ2aiQjClzF
 
Yes, I AM most serious, and you just proved my point.. how long have you been doing tree work?... how much training do you have? .. how many books have you read?.. well there is (SO MUCH) a lot more to how deep or shallow to cut a notch than you wrote ... And even the very idea that you put out has been the subject of heated debate. can you quote sources?? I didn't think so.. do have empirical evidence or personal experimentation to back up (at least in your own mind) your reasoning? So at best you are guessing or just repeating what you've heard.. thus demonstrating that you don't know... Apparently Norm doesn't know either. I think he's a pro trainer. That speaks volumes to the state of our industry. Might sound arrogant, but its just calling a spade a spade..

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The 1/3 ... 80% rule is for rookies.. Everyone spouts it but no one knows why.. If you are going to criticize or "critique" a cut, you should know the why.. its amazing how that teaching has become gospel truth in the industry while so few people really understand the why of it..

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Are you serious?
I agree with you that you don't have to take the 80% rule as gospel all the time. Just like we don't make a 70-90 degree notch all the time. They're guidelines. But saying no one knows why is pretty ignorant on your part. It's ok to say you don't know.
We're supposed to be trained professional and understand the methods and techniques we use. 80% of the diameter isn't just a number someone thought sounded good and just ran with it.
The reason to my understanding for making your hinge 80% the diameter of the tree is to maximize the use of the sapwood, thus relying more on the live outer wood to bend and control the notch as the log falls opposed to relying on the more brittle heartwood.
Having said that not all trees are perfect circles so the 80% rule wouldn't apply. This is where experience comes into play and you'd have to make your own executive decision.

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You go Daniel. What everyone forgets is that you are The Great Daniel. You are the keeper of all knowledge. You've already read Gilman's 5th edition. You really crack me up. Keep your posts coming, they are the epitome of self will run riot. Stay safe.
 
Cracks I believe were caused by large force of pull and perhaps the size of the tree were a factor also Ash is a very dry wood.
 
That large crack is a BIG ISSUE.. I saw it originally and should have paid it more attention. Looks like he had too much pull on the system, which is pretty easy to do with that kind of pulling force combined with such a high tie off point.

If it started to split down the trunk, it cold have just as easily barber chaired. That would have been really bad. This has nothing to do with the depth of the notches.. And everything to do with putting too much pull on the tree too early in the back cut before the hinge is formed.. You can see in A LOT of my falling videos, the line is just slightly pre-tensioned, and no additional pull is used until the cut is complete.. so I walk away and call for the pull, thus avoiding that potentially disastrous scenario..

Maybe I gave Ricky too much credit.. Certainly appears that way!
 
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You go Daniel. What everyone forgets is that you are The Great Daniel. You are the keeper of all knowledge. You've already read Gilman's 5th edition. You really crack me up. Keep your posts coming, they are the epitome of self will run riot. Stay safe.

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You can take a cheap poke or add something to the conversation.. can you give us the details as to why the 1/3 or 80% rule is such? I can't wait to hear this one!
 
I am definetly not an expert, but our standard practice for pulling trees is:

1. Apply just enough tension while tree is being cut to hold the tree and not cause barber chair. Both notch and backcut.

2. Cutter finishes cut(leaving sufficient holding wood) and hits escape route

3. Apply more tension to tree and watch a good plan come together!
 
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Maybe I gave Ricky too much credit.. Certainly appears that way!

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Daniel Daniel. You are funny. Bud look at your avatar pic? Doesn't matter how you explain that cut, it's just plain ridiculous. did it barber chair? I thought it went exactly where I wanted it. So Mr. Smartypants why don't you tell us in great detail how that came about instead of pointing at something that didn't even happen. My saw was sharp and went through quick, yours dull and slow. I guess I am talking about more than saws now.
 
Oh Oh Ricky steps back ever so gracefully, sets his stance and fires a beautiful right hook punishing his opponent. Now back to the business at hand we need a referee ( someone versed in large tree felling i.e experienced ) who is neutral and can shine some light on this thread ( video ) without it turning into a full on brawl because that is where this is headed. It's not what ya say but how you say it in other words if ya want your voice to be heard be respectful. We don't have those type of pole trees around here so I am in no position to speak but am still quite interested as I might just very well be moving back to Canada because I yearn for more action.
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