Anyone conceal carry while working?

those guys scare me too! was driving down the highway and there was a billboard with a militia dude pointing an assault rifle at all the cars driving by. It was one of several billboards for "tactical Superstore" wow. Ive been in the heart of Detroit for years, been mugged, robbed, attacked by pits, had murderers for neighbors, hear a lot of gunfire and I have never felt the need for a gun, but that Billboard , which happened to be outside of Ann Arbor terrified me and I sure felt the need for a gun. They know their marketing so well, its fricken genius.
 
its funny about who locks their truck and who doesn't. I live in Detroit and don't lock up my truck,. once I had locked it and they busted out the window for the change in the cup holder. I know people in the middle of nowhere country as hell and they lock their car religiously. the key is owning a truck that no one wants and also not leaving things in it that are shiny and you care about too much
 
macswan said:
I have never been in a place and thought, "you know what would help me feel better, a gun" I have been in sketchy parts of various major cities and I am glaringly white. I have talked my way out of a number of less than friendly situations. I have never truly worried for my safety enough to want a gun on me in public. I have also never felt attached enough to anything I own to shoot someone over it.
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Mac, I've seen your interview and your opinion doesn't count here because you are the brute squad.
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Here's something I can comment on. You guys are the tree experts but i am very experienced in gun fighting. 5.5 yrs army infantry. 2 deployments to afghsnistan and countless hours of training in between. I am a patriot. Just because i no longer wear a uniform does not mean the oath i took is no longer valid. I try to live every day to be respectful and help my fellow citizens. It upsets me to see innocent loss of life due to the selfish people amongst us.

I'm in the US and like all other 1st world countries we are free. Everyones opinion is valid and should be respected. Whether you like guns, hate guns, hate carrying guns, whatever. it is your choice. But please look up facts. The media is NOT a source, the hardcore anti gun sites are not a source. Even some of the hardcore pro gun are not a source. They give out intentional misinformation to stir drama. But that is not to say the pro gun side does not lie. I have seen it as well. My dad was once anti gun because he got his info from the media. Over the course of time of showing him reality and the truths behind the "evil" guns, and problems in his neighborhood he has now asked me to take him and my mother shooting because he is INTERESTED in getting a gun for home defense. An intelligent debate is to hear both sides and then gather your own conclusion. I did not push him, or call him stupid or anything. I simply laid out what i had to say and answered his questions. And he approached me on his terms. Once the name calling starts it is no longer intelligent.

Self defense is a human right. We all have a right to protect our life when it is wrongfully threatened. All creatures act in self defense and so do we. Guns are a TOOL that has advanced due to technology, just like cars chainsaws, smartphones etc. They are to level the field between a 6ft 230lb man attacking a 5ft 2 130lb woman, or even another man who is disabled or otherwise not physically capable to defend himself. Criminals DO use guns. Illegally. Felons cannot even posses guns. But they don't become felons by abiding the law now do they?

Handguns are not inaccurate. Cheap handguns are, but like any other tool you get what you pay for and it is only as good as the operator using it. In todays age handguns are very accurate short range and with a good shooter up to 100yds or more, for a reasonable price. $350-500 new. Handgun calibers are less than ideal. But much easier to carry than a rifle. And ammunition has advanced tremendously over the last few decades. FMJ is worthless for anything other than plinking and training. There are a handful of very good jhp ammo choices available. Most self defense encounters are within arms reach or just out of. So accuracy of the gun is a moot point. The gun just needs to go bang when you pull the trigger. YOU as the shooter need to do your part and have proper fundamentals which comes from proper training. Shooting, like anything else we do that requires coordination is built from PROPER repetition. Just like you guys are in the tree. It took you a while to get into a smooth fluid motion and for your body to move the way it needs without thinking about every step and making a good cut. Or even driving a car. Proper training helps tremendously under stress. You do not rise to the occasion, you fall back to the level of training you have mastered. Also most police deptartments have low training budgets. Their trigger time usually consists of the yearly 40 some odd rounds at a paper target. As a cop who carries a gun you would think they would be afforded important up to date realistic training. But they don't. Other than the srt/swat/hrt/ whatever acronym they use teams that do train, it is up to each officer to spend out of pocket on legitimate training classes which run around 3-400 for a 2 day class. Plus 1500-2000 rounds in ammunition for each firearm they will run, PLUS cost of ammunition to continue practicing at least weekly what you learned from the class. That adds up quickly. This is not to talk bad on cops. They should be given respect until they do something to lose it, they work hard and its very stressful. It is not their fault they are low paid and are not given opportunities to train on the depts dime. Just saying because someone wears a badge they are not a gun expert. Their priority is law enforcement. But they carry a gun and in my opinion as a professional they should be equally proficient.

Back to criminals. They are unpredictable, they will kill you if they want. Your life is in your hands unless you can beat them at their own game. The type that will approach someone is usually a career criminal. They do not care about your life.

Anyone who carries a gun HAS to make the mental decision to take another life before they strap the gun on IF it ever comes to that. If not you are not being responsible. You will hesitate and may make a situation worse
Like a criminal taking your gun and killing you with it and now has a free gun to kill more people. I'm not saying shoot everyone that takes your stuff. In many states it is not even legal to shoot over property theft anyway. BUT if they approach you and you do fear for your life you have every right to defend yourself. It is important to give them a chance. Even tho they are a piece of shit they still are another human (i use that loosely) remove all doubt before you draw, and wait until the last possible chance. Let them take your stuff, but get out of there fast while they are focused on your stuff. But if they initiate with a deadly weapon you can assume they will kill you. We all deserve a fighting chance.

Why is it ok for a criminal to kill a good person but god forbid a good person kill a criminal so they can go home? Think deeply about your wife having to explain to your kids why daddy is dead. Why he will never come to your graduation, or another game, or prom, or see his grandkids. And the bad man who robs, beats and kills, owes $100k in child support, deals meth to school kids. Has been in and out of jail since he was 13, which your tax dollars paid for, gets to live and if not caught lives a free man not following any law. Why does that piece of shit get to live? I get it every life IS precious. But when it comes to a choice of you or them, who is the better contributor to society? Who has a real family to come home to? Who doesnt destroy lives every single day? It is not just your life, it is the lives of everyone you love.


Sure you may never ever need a gun. And lets hope we all live life that way. But the truth is every day innocent people are murdered. One day it MAY be you. We don't carry guns looking for a fight. We carry them because we want to see our family every day. They need us. But we also wear seatbelts, helmets, have fore extinguishers, all types of insurance, backups, backups for backups. We do many things in life preparing for something we may never need. But when the topic of carrying a gun it's suddenly paranoia.

Without resistance criminals will take over. They will always have guns even if the law abiding citizens cannot.


There are also many legality issues of carrying at work that may need to be addressed depending on your state and county. As well as company rules if you work for one.
 
Boomslang said:
Growing up in the 90s in Canada this was my childhood too. It's really only in the past 10-15 years that things have gone downhill. And I don't think it's because the crime rate has gone up (it's actually dropped in both countries) or the real danger has increased. It's only the perceived danger that has risen. Nowadays everyone lives in fear of the boogeyman in their mind.
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Yes. When I lived in the burbs, Richmond Hill, north of Toronto, people up there were stunned we would go downtown any time of day or night. They were afraid of what they were being bombarded by in the media. Not that millions slept soundly, walked the streets without incident or fear every day, just the very few incidents of crime. I subsequently moved downtown and lived on the boundary of an up and coming neighbourhood and a sketchy one with my 2 teenage daughters. We didn't lock our doors, even when we went away. They, and I walked, rode bikes or public transit to get around.

The reality is far more mundane and tedious than that which is portrayed to us. But hell, fear sells just about anything that sex doesn't.
 
There are separate branches of government that focus on these issues. But let's be clear they are different animals. One involves a device whose primary purpose is causing death. Murders are deliberate acts. Cars have a benign purpose but are prone to accidents leading to death. Very, very different.
 
treehumper said:
There are separate branches of government that focus on these issues. But let's be clear they are different animals. One involves a device whose primary purpose is causing death. Murders are deliberate acts. Cars have a benign purpose but are prone to accidents leading to death. Very, very different.
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To be clear that is ALL types of murder. Drowning, beating, burning, shooting choking. Whatever the cause.

Not different at all. I find it odd that people will fear a gun then hop in a 2 ton missile and haul ass down a 2 lane road at 60mph, changing the radio, talking on the phone, texting, fumbling with papers, putting on makeup. Doing anything but pay attention to the road. And yet we are rewarded with new cars having new features and fancy screens and more buttons and knobs to distract us even more. The vehicle itself is a tool. What people do while operating it is a deliberate act.
 
treehumper said:
Well that's dumb. I think Mac made the point that there really is a third option, it's not either or.
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It is an individual decision to deal with taking another life. But we cannot always be selfish. There are others that depend on us and need us. Thats why i don't get the whole let them kill you idea. I can understand being anti gun but at least fight. My thinking is i didn't ask them to threaten my life. That was their choice. If i have to take theirs, that was their doing not mine. They knew the consequences. Like i said, the choice is for my family not me.
 
I have never heard anyone say, just let them kill you. That is a ridiculous concept that no one here was putting on the table. I think the issue is much broader than you are painting it. There is more than just bad guys and good guys.

And I don't think anyone was saying they were afraid of guns here either. I grew up around guns, it's the people who worry me. the ones hoarding guns, or feeling like they need to carry them in order to be a super hero. Guns serve a purpose. They are just over used in our country. I really appreciate the way Australia handled gun law in the wake of the port Arthur incident. We need to thin the herd.
 
macswan said:
I have never heard anyone say, just let them kill you. That is a ridiculous concept that no one here was putting on the table. I think the issue is much broader than you are painting it. There is more than just bad guys and good guys.

And I don't think anyone was saying they were afraid of guns here either. I grew up around guns, it's the people who worry me. the ones hoarding guns, or feeling like they need to carry them in order to be a super hero. Guns serve a purpose. They are just over used in our country. I really appreciate the way Australia handled gun law in the wake of the port Arthur incident. We need to thin the herd.
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Couldn't help but comment on this:

 
treevet said:
Anyone that actually is legally licensed to carry a gun outside of their home, cc permit, knows that it is not legal to shoot someone for property. If you pull your weapon you better be legal or you will spend your life in jail, you better be ready to use it or possibly the opponent will rush you and take it from you and kill you with your own gun. Even if you shoot someone in legal circumstances, you could spend all your money litigating at their volition. It could destroy your life...and you could have been completely in the right.

I conceal carry a Keltec pf9 9mm. Such a nice piece as far as size and concealability. It was the gun Zimmerman pulled out of his shirt and killed the guy on top of him, Trayvon Martin. I only take it when going thru very bad neighborhoods or having to walk around bidding in them. We rarely work in them but if someone asks me for a bid...they get one...anywhere.

My house was broken into in an upper middle class suburb yesterday between 2 and 6 am and about $12,000 worth of chainsaws and couple of other pieces of equipment were stolen. They broke the window on my truck and found the remote and opened the under the house garage door. They were in my house with an open access door that led upstairs to ...us...completely unfettered.

If I had heard them and come downstairs and found them I would have had a 9mm Glock locked and loaded with me from my bedroom. Upon approaching them I would demand they lay flat on the floor and I would then call the cops. If they came at me I would shoot them. If they ran away, I would have let them get away.

But you HAVE to believe, they cased me, knew what I had and wanted it. My wife and I also believe they sat in a car and watched us until lights went out and we went to bed.

If they could not enter the basement, would they then enter the upper floors planning to hold us hostage with guns while they got what they wanted? I have a weapon on each floor. I can still fight pretty good until I reached that weapon or I would be fine with being killed prior to letting them have access to my family regardless of what I suspected they were up to. Those kind of things often turn ugly fast. You have to expect the worse and act accordingly.

Criminals are freed from overcrowded jails perpetually. If I was a crook that would send a signal to me...crime pays.

Couple of picts. from yesterday. Truck broken likely very quietly and garage door lifted with remote. Second picture is 8 shelves that were full of real nice pro chainsaws. Also a new Honda eu2000i generator.

For what is worth to any of you who may do as we do...my wife has to sleep with a fan running her whole adult life. I have fallen into turning it on if she doesn't. It is more for the noise than the breeze. I told her the fan days are over and when I went up to bed yesterday she was asleep with the fan off. I had trouble sleeping without it. I think this was of some significance.

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Sorry for your loss excellent post and great perspective. Most of all I'm glad you or no one in your family was injured. Even if things went as one would hope, you would still feel terrible if a family member was shot with a stray bullet in the gun battle. Protecting one's life, because they started out protecting their property, often does not work out real well.
Again, glad you and your family are safe.
 
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