Crimsonking
Been here a while
Which rope was it? I’ve experienced that with a couple. Mercury was a bungee cord.
Anyone climb on 13 mm htp or km3 max?
- Thread starter RBJtree
- Start date
RBJtree
Branched out member
- Location
- Pittsburgh
I just ordered 150 ft of km3 1/2 inch from maple leaf ropes. They say I should have it by Friday. Hopefully I'll get some testing done over the weekend and let you all know how it goes.
Edelrid Performance. A lovely rope but definitely not for SRT work in tall timber. It has been demoted to my new DdRT rope and is working out fine, but I really didn't need another DdRT rope when I dropped the $ for a 300 ft hank of it.
Tom Lynch
New member
- Location
- Brockville
This is very helpful, I was just looking at buying on MapleLeaf, but can't decide on what ~12.5mm Kern to buy. I've only climbed a tiny bit on 11mm KM-III, otherwise all Double braid and 16 strand. I hope to have a full 1/2" my hands really lock up on 11mm. But I like the feeling of being on a cable. Also, I want to build a huge rec zip line!
The cheapness in me wants to try https://www.mapleleafropes.com/store/category/static-kernmantle-polyester-rope Part Number: SKP050600W $630 for 600' of 1/2" I sent them an email asking the properties.
Then 1/2" KM-III (white) $674, 11.7mm Xstatic at $816 or 1/2" Work pro (white) @ $837
KM-III Grip looks interesting at 1/2" https://www.mapleleafropes.com/stor...c-rope-kernmantle-polyester-sheath-nylon-core $943 for 600'
The cheapness in me wants to try https://www.mapleleafropes.com/store/category/static-kernmantle-polyester-rope Part Number: SKP050600W $630 for 600' of 1/2" I sent them an email asking the properties.
Then 1/2" KM-III (white) $674, 11.7mm Xstatic at $816 or 1/2" Work pro (white) @ $837
KM-III Grip looks interesting at 1/2" https://www.mapleleafropes.com/stor...c-rope-kernmantle-polyester-sheath-nylon-core $943 for 600'
Vortex is the least bouncy rope I have climbed on. That statement unfortunately is almost worthless as I have not used any true static ropes for tree climbing. I like a bit of give in my ropes as it is shock dissipating, which has saved my sorry ass more than once.
JeffGu
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Osceola, Nebraska
The very best ropes for climbing, in my easily disregarded opinion, are the ones that remain very static below 300 lbs. and do all of their elongating above 300 lbs. where it's a desirable trait.
Elongation on ascent is annoying, but elongation during a fall is wonderful. The very best ropes with these qualities that I've found were 1/2" kernmantles. Of course, those have their own set of qualities that many don't like. Weight, hand and marginal performance in mechanical devices all come to mind.
Elongation on ascent is annoying, but elongation during a fall is wonderful. The very best ropes with these qualities that I've found were 1/2" kernmantles. Of course, those have their own set of qualities that many don't like. Weight, hand and marginal performance in mechanical devices all come to mind.
RBJtree
Branched out member
- Location
- Pittsburgh
Teufelberger lists elongation for their ropes as a percentage between 50 and 150 kgs. I weigh about 80 kgs and a real hard push on my digital scale appears to approach 150kgs. I guess that's what they are getting at.
Xstatic = 1.4
Km3 max 11 mm = 1
Km3 max 13mm = 2.1 (why higher than 11mm?)
Km3 13mm = 1.9
I have read some people say they think km3 max 11mm is bouncy. My experience is that it was not. I have never heard anything about xstatic being bouncy. I have not used xstatic or km3 13mm yet, but I will see about the km3 13mm soon. I rarely have the pleasure of a tip higher than 70 feet, usually less, occasionally a little more. On a rare occation I get a 100 footer. Sometimes on a base tie which does induce much more bounce. I think people who climb taller trees will certainly feel more bounce. Different climbing styles will make a difference. Even when I get to climb tall trees durring oak trim season I rarely ascend all the way to the top before I start working. So if the rope is a little bouncy for 15 or 20 seconds while I get to working height, it doesn't really make a difference in the long run. I also just got a knee ascender. Previously I was on a foot ascender and a foot loop on a hand ascender which didn't make for a real smooth ascent anyway, but I got pretty quick on that setup. I could easily do 50 feet in about 20 seconds without breaking a sweat or trying to be fast. Long strides. Still, I could feel a difference when I went to scandere from km3 max, it just didn't bother me. Increased ability to grip the rope was more important. I often pull myself up short distances by hand. I had to use a hand ascender on km3 max 11mm far too often for my liking. Rope weight is nothing to me. 99% of the time I am on the rope, the rope is not on me, why would an extra pound or two per hundred feet matter? I climbed ddrt on blue core for 16 years before I went srt. Its all butter in comparison, I'm just fine tuning my butter. But those 10 to 20 foot hand pulls on 11mm really suck in srt. Thats been the only down side. Oh, did I mention imori? Bdb don't like it, hh2 actually flattens it to where I am grabbing a flat ass rope wondering if my hitch is going to keep holding it. It does give good grip. Further more, I can't see my 174 pounds(without gear) causing much stretch in a rope with 12,000 lb tensile strength (km3 13mm) but who knows. I'll try to get some quantitative comparison on something tall enough to matter. I currently have 200 ft of scandere, 150ft of blue moon, and the 150 feet of km3 13mm coming in the mail. For that matter, I have a nearly unused 150 feet of blue core I bought for one of my guys available too. It would be fun to get them all canopy tied at 100 feet on something that doesn't flex and see I can make them bounce.
Xstatic = 1.4
Km3 max 11 mm = 1
Km3 max 13mm = 2.1 (why higher than 11mm?)
Km3 13mm = 1.9
I have read some people say they think km3 max 11mm is bouncy. My experience is that it was not. I have never heard anything about xstatic being bouncy. I have not used xstatic or km3 13mm yet, but I will see about the km3 13mm soon. I rarely have the pleasure of a tip higher than 70 feet, usually less, occasionally a little more. On a rare occation I get a 100 footer. Sometimes on a base tie which does induce much more bounce. I think people who climb taller trees will certainly feel more bounce. Different climbing styles will make a difference. Even when I get to climb tall trees durring oak trim season I rarely ascend all the way to the top before I start working. So if the rope is a little bouncy for 15 or 20 seconds while I get to working height, it doesn't really make a difference in the long run. I also just got a knee ascender. Previously I was on a foot ascender and a foot loop on a hand ascender which didn't make for a real smooth ascent anyway, but I got pretty quick on that setup. I could easily do 50 feet in about 20 seconds without breaking a sweat or trying to be fast. Long strides. Still, I could feel a difference when I went to scandere from km3 max, it just didn't bother me. Increased ability to grip the rope was more important. I often pull myself up short distances by hand. I had to use a hand ascender on km3 max 11mm far too often for my liking. Rope weight is nothing to me. 99% of the time I am on the rope, the rope is not on me, why would an extra pound or two per hundred feet matter? I climbed ddrt on blue core for 16 years before I went srt. Its all butter in comparison, I'm just fine tuning my butter. But those 10 to 20 foot hand pulls on 11mm really suck in srt. Thats been the only down side. Oh, did I mention imori? Bdb don't like it, hh2 actually flattens it to where I am grabbing a flat ass rope wondering if my hitch is going to keep holding it. It does give good grip. Further more, I can't see my 174 pounds(without gear) causing much stretch in a rope with 12,000 lb tensile strength (km3 13mm) but who knows. I'll try to get some quantitative comparison on something tall enough to matter. I currently have 200 ft of scandere, 150ft of blue moon, and the 150 feet of km3 13mm coming in the mail. For that matter, I have a nearly unused 150 feet of blue core I bought for one of my guys available too. It would be fun to get them all canopy tied at 100 feet on something that doesn't flex and see I can make them bounce.
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
Can you use a clove on a biner, rather than make a loop, presumably for a biner?
RBJtree
Branched out member
- Location
- Pittsburgh
Now this is interesting. I was always looking at teufels numbers in their listings for arborist ropes, but if you look up the same rope under a different use type, they list elongation as percentage at x.x kn. Km3 13mm is listed as 2.8% at 1.35 kn (roughly 300 lbs) and 4.5 % at 2.7 kn (roughly 600 lbs). I look at ropes on the internet too much?
RBJtree
Branched out member
- Location
- Pittsburgh
That km3 grip does look interesting.
JeffGu
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Osceola, Nebraska
This is what makes it a nice rope. Low stretch on ascent, good energy absorption if you fall.
JeffGu
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Osceola, Nebraska
Yes, that's the 11mm KM3 in orange, with 2 blue tracers.
The 11mm KM3 Max in orange or black has 3 yellow/gold tracers.
The 11mm KM3 Max in orange or black has 3 yellow/gold tracers.
Thanks Jeff!
Max means half inch/ 13mm?
Is the 11mm KM3 usually fatter than true 11mm? It’s definitely thicker than my 11.7 from Teufelberger, a tiny bit smaller that all my half inch 16 and 12 strands.
Think I’ll toss it back in the bag and give it a shot on the HH2. Only 90’ or so but lots of urban tree work here is under 40’.
Max means half inch/ 13mm?
Is the 11mm KM3 usually fatter than true 11mm? It’s definitely thicker than my 11.7 from Teufelberger, a tiny bit smaller that all my half inch 16 and 12 strands.
Think I’ll toss it back in the bag and give it a shot on the HH2. Only 90’ or so but lots of urban tree work here is under 40’.
JeffGu
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Osceola, Nebraska
The difference between the KM3 and the KM3 Max is how the cover is braided... the Max uses Teufelberger's TPT (Twill Pattern Technology) which is marketing babble for "they changed the braid pattern" to give it a different feel. It is supposed to make the friction coefficient better for mechanical devices. As near as I can tell, it actually is better, and the KM3 seems a little better with cordage. Just my observations. You can actually see the difference between the cover braid if you have both ropes in front of you.
As for the size, all rope manufacturers use rubber calipers, apparently, so they can make any number equal to any other number. They turn fact into fiction, and fiction into fact with equal alacrity. From your pic, the KM3 looks like the 11mm (only a bit bigger than the Fly) but I can't really tell. It could be the 1/2" KM3, because they offer the color schemes in both sizes (11mm and 13mm) so you'll have to measure it with a micrometer with about 50 lbs. of weight/tension on it.
Either way, just try it in your device... it will either love it or hate it, right? From what I've been reading on here, the HH2 won't care which size it is. You might have to fiddle with your hitch, if it's the 1/2" (13mm) version it will have a lot of friction. At least, mine sure does.
As for the size, all rope manufacturers use rubber calipers, apparently, so they can make any number equal to any other number. They turn fact into fiction, and fiction into fact with equal alacrity. From your pic, the KM3 looks like the 11mm (only a bit bigger than the Fly) but I can't really tell. It could be the 1/2" KM3, because they offer the color schemes in both sizes (11mm and 13mm) so you'll have to measure it with a micrometer with about 50 lbs. of weight/tension on it.
Either way, just try it in your device... it will either love it or hate it, right? From what I've been reading on here, the HH2 won't care which size it is. You might have to fiddle with your hitch, if it's the 1/2" (13mm) version it will have a lot of friction. At least, mine sure does.
Tom Lynch
New member
- Location
- Brockville
I found a new 600' spool of Petzl 12.5mm super cheap still wrapped in plastic. Anyone ever handle it, does it knot at all?
RBJtree
Branched out member
- Location
- Pittsburgh
I got my new 13mm km3 in the mail today. I took a couple runs up and down a tree in my backyard for initial testing.
On the hh2 with a four wrap valdotain of ice tail it is perfect tending durring ascent and smooth and controlled durring decent. I did not have a chance to do any big bombs, but it seems like it would run free if I wanted it to.
The bdb was a big surprise... it ran great! Adjusted all the way open, good tending, very controllable on decent.
Easy to grip this rope! I can go hand over hand walking my feet up the tree with no problem, grip gloves or bare hand. Can't say much about bouncyness yet because my tip was only about 30 foot, but I should get a chance for a higher tip real soon. Hand is good for a kernmantel. Softer and more flexible than the km3 max 11mm or scandere, but not by much. Still feels real dense and so far has held pretty round.
All in all, I don't want to jump to conclutions, but so far I freakin love this rope!
On the hh2 with a four wrap valdotain of ice tail it is perfect tending durring ascent and smooth and controlled durring decent. I did not have a chance to do any big bombs, but it seems like it would run free if I wanted it to.
The bdb was a big surprise... it ran great! Adjusted all the way open, good tending, very controllable on decent.
Easy to grip this rope! I can go hand over hand walking my feet up the tree with no problem, grip gloves or bare hand. Can't say much about bouncyness yet because my tip was only about 30 foot, but I should get a chance for a higher tip real soon. Hand is good for a kernmantel. Softer and more flexible than the km3 max 11mm or scandere, but not by much. Still feels real dense and so far has held pretty round.
All in all, I don't want to jump to conclutions, but so far I freakin love this rope!
JeffGu
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Osceola, Nebraska
You're the second person I've seen mention that with the BDB wide open it works well on this rope. And, I suspected that the HH2 would, as well, from what others have said.
I see a large gear expense looming in my future... the very near future... because I really like this rope and want to use it. Damn the whole lot of you. I believe that I may have fallen victim to gear pressure.
RBJtree
Branched out member
- Location
- Pittsburgh
I have a rec climb planned for Sunday and will spending some quality time with this rope. I will certainly post my results. I'm really excited about this rope! Weirdly excited. I feel like a kid with a really cool new toy.
